Lancaster Rehab - Attempted Reclamation and Rescue of an Old Project Gone Wrong

[rich pierce]

Nice and clean; good Lancaster carving!

[Nordnecker]

I'm enjoying this thread. It looks like you wrapped a bit of string around the shank of your chisel. That's a great idea. I might wrap one of mine later today.

[Mike Brooks]

Are you going to sand out that background or scrape it? Or do both?

[BOB HILL]

Looking good, Curtis. Looking good.       Bob

[gunlock]

Nice salvage Curtis! Remember...putty and paint make it what it ain't!!

[SingleMalt]

Nice job on the carving.  Any thoughts on the stain and hue?

[Curtis]

Thanks guys, all your comments are very much appreciated!

Mike - Yep, I will scrape and/or sand it.  I prefer scraping, but some areas on this stock like to gall or chatter when scraping so may have to sand more than I like.  Pretty sure this stock was kiln dried.

Singlemalt, I haven't really though that far ahead, but will probably shoot for a reddish hue.  Since this is a precarve I don't have any scraps of the same wood to test with, so whatever I do will be what it will be....
Curtis

[Curtis]

A friend and mentor emailed a couple of most helpful photos of a box lid, also I spent some time looking at the link Mike posted (Kibler's website) and the many great examples of wood box lids Jim has on there.  So I whipped out my Sharpie and pencil & sketched some lines.  So here is the marked up back of the lid:



And after considerable filing, rasping and scraping here is what I came up with.  I gave the lid a slimmer, more rounded shape, and tapered both the width and the height towards the front of the lid.  Do I need to go any thinner at the front?  Opinions are always welcome.





Got the tang carving mostly finished, will need to do a bit more cleanup on it.  I put a small wire inlay for a splash of contrast.  I thought I had the wire annealed better than I really did, and almost had a problem on my hands.... 





I quit hammering on it before it was too late, and was able to straighten it up using a small punch made from 1/16" drill rod.



Tapped it in some more, filed then sanded.  Here is where I'm at now:









And once again one of those "before" pics....  Hopefully I will improve it a little. 



Thanks for looking,
Curtis

[BOB HILL]

Looks like a great improvement to me. Thanks for sharing.    Bob

[elk killer]

Curtis, I am really enjoying this a lot, it's a great improvement, your box lid looks better,
I had a lid that looked way to flat, so I rounded it more as you have,
Great work, carving looks good

[Mike Brooks]

All looks good to me. The box is much better now.

[bama]

Great job Curtis, creativity is a key in long rifle building and you got creative with this fix. Many opportunities in a longrifle build, that is a big part of being a gun smith. Thanks for sharing.

[Pukka Bundook]

Good job, Curtis.

Did you cut teeth on the bottom edge of your silver wire to hold it in place?  Can't quite see ....

That and tapering always need doing.  :-)

Looks a thousand times better than it started out. Congrats!

[Hemo]

Really nice work on the carving, the tang salvage job, and the box lid, Curtis! Your curvaceous tang carving is much nicer than the straight-lined original acanthus leaf. Are you going to do diaper cuts next to the tang?
If it were mine, I'd probably shave some more wood off the front end of the box lid, but it's certainly not bad the way it is.
Thanks for posting!
Gregg

[Marcruger]

I love the buttstock carving Curtis, and way to save that project.  I am impressed.  BTW, I love that patchbox lid after slimming.  I think you got the form just right.  Just my eyeballs' opinion though.  You go good sir.  God Bless,   Marc

[Ed Wenger]

Great "save", looking good, Curtis!


           Ed

[Curtis]

Did you cut teeth on the bottom edge of your silver wire to hold it in place?  Can't quite see ....

Pukka, thanks!  I filed a "knife edge" on the bottom of the silver wire, then scored the sides with a file to help give it purchase in the wood.  That's the method Mark Silver taught when I took his class.  What do you use to cut teeth on the bottom edge of the wire, a chisel?   I'd be curious to know, the more ways a fella knows hot to skin a cat the better!

Curtis

[Curtis]

Hemo, I may put the lid on more of a diet after looking at it for a day or two.  You might have to hep me out, I'm not sure what you mean by diaper cuts next to the tang.  Explain the term to me and I'll try to answer your question!

I appreciate the kind words Marc & Ed... 

Ed, I don't know if you remember or not but you and Kibler were two of the guys I remember trying to help by giving me good advice several years ago, when I first started this project!  I still appreciate that.   

Curtis

[Curtis]

Just got a couple of pics to add today - this is what I came up with for carving behind the entry pipe.  It still needs come cleanup.  The pipes on this rifle are cast and I don't much care for them - however since they were already inlet when I put the rifle in the corner I will learn to live with them.  I much prefer hand made pipes.





Curtis

[Pukka Bundook]

Did you cut teeth on the bottom edge of your silver wire to hold it in place?  Can't quite see ....

Pukka, thanks!  I filed a "knife edge" on the bottom of the silver wire, then scored the sides with a file to help give it purchase in the wood.  That's the method Mark Silver taught when I took his class.  What do you use to cut teeth on the bottom edge of the wire, a chisel?   I'd be curious to know, the more ways a fella knows hot to skin a cat the better!

Curtis

Curtis,

Mark Silver knows much more about this work than I do, but learned to cut teeth on the lower side of the silver and Not make a knife edge, to hold it in place so it can never come out again.
To make teeth, the wire is stood on a hard surface bottom side up, and tapped along its length with a dull knife. (I use an old putty -removing knife)  This dings up the edge and creates teeth with a 'set' just like a saw.
When the wire is tapped into the slots, (make cuts deep enough and with a thick enough tool that the wire will go in easily) and the wood wetted, it shrinks back, gripping the teeth and can't come out ever again.
The trouble with a knife edge, is it always wants to wedge itself back out of the cut.    We see old silver -work done in the 18th C, and some of it was done with a knife edge, and has come loose...needs re-bedding. Some other has stayed put and not shifted at all....teeth maybe?  Both ways were used.

Try an experiment on scrap.  I did.  :-)

[Hemo]

Hemo, I may put the lid on more of a diet after looking at it for a day or two.  You might have to hep me out, I'm not sure what you mean by diaper cuts next to the tang.  Explain the term to me and I'll try to answer your question!

Curtis, "diaper" work refers to even cross-hatched designs, usually diamond shaped. You had some sketched in on your pre-tang carving photo. What this has to do with stinky babies, I have no idea. Here's some diaper work I did a couple of years back:






Keep sending pics! Looking good!

Gregg

[Curtis]

Curtis,

Mark Silver knows much more about this work than I do........

Pukka B, whether that statement is true or not, it does not preclude you from the ability to give excellent advice on the subject!    I may have another piece or two of wire to inlay, if so and will give the teeth on the lower side a try.

Curtis

[Curtis]

Gregg, Thanks for the pics, the rifle, carving and "diapering" look great. You piqued my curiosity and I had to look the "diaper" term up.

From Wikipedia:
Diaper is any of a wide range of decorative patterns used in a variety of works of art, such as stained glass, heraldic shields, architecture, and silverwork. Its chief use is in the enlivening of plain surfaces.

Etymology
For the etymology see "diaper". The Oxford dictionary gives the Greek dia for "cross" as in "diamond" or "diagonal," and aspros, Greek for "white". A white diamond or white cloth is used on the diagonal, hence the diagonal lattice or reticulation in patterning.

Also of lesser interest, I learned this, lol:

Diaper may refer to:

    Diaper, an absorbent garment
    Diapering, range of decorative patterns used in a variety of works of art, such as stained glass, heraldic shields, architecture, silverwork etc.
    "Diaper", a 1999 song by Meat Puppets from You Love Me


Back to your question, I was very much considering putting a diaper pattern around the tang, however with my final design decided against it.  Unless I change my mind of course!

Curtis

[Jim Kibler]

Curtis,

That is looking nice.  A couple of suggestions...  You may want to consider blending out your background a little farther from you object you are carving.  It seems to dive a bit.  You see this on original work sometimes, but I think it looks much more professional and refined to fade it out a good bit more.

Also, the leaf on your tang carving sort of in the middle is hard on my eye.  Keep the general flow and how shapes transition as they are growing and unfolding in mind.  With this the case it would tend to curve around more toward the breech.

It's looking good though and thanks for sharing.

Jim

[SingleMalt]

Just got a couple of pics to add today - this is what I came up with for carving behind the entry pipe.  It still needs come cleanup.  The pipes on this rifle are cast and I don't much care for them - however since they were already inlet when I put the rifle in the corner I will learn to live with them.  I much prefer hand made pipes.





Curtis


You could file “semi flats” on the entry pipe skirt to give the impression of flats. A band on the edge would avoid having to remove wood.