Author Topic: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769  (Read 8401 times)

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769
« on: May 04, 2009, 03:12:12 PM »
What an extraordinary gun. Dated 1769. Unsigned.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=167.0

Please reply here with your comments as a "reply."
Hurricane
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 08:30:09 PM by hurricane »

Offline Longknife

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1709
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2009, 04:58:52 PM »
That is a cool and unusual piece, isn't5 that date 1769 though?
Ed Hamberg

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1709
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2009, 05:42:21 PM »
Nifty gun. I must admit that rigger guard makes my physically recoil every time I see it!
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Offline G-Man

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1709
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2009, 05:49:33 PM »
Is that a gear from a pocket watch used as an inly behind the tang?

Offline Ken G

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1709
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 06:02:50 PM »
Guy,
I thought the same thing.  Strange shape for an inlay for that gun unless is is something slavaged from a watch or other mechanical instrument. 
Ken
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Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1709
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 06:52:12 PM »
Is that a gear from a pocket watch used as an inly behind the tang?

 Good eye, I think you are right.

Tim C.

Online rich pierce

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1709
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2009, 06:52:22 PM »
cherry or walnut?
Andover, Vermont

Offline James Rogers

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1709
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 07:10:08 PM »
walnut

Offline Stophel

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1709
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2009, 07:10:58 PM »
The buttplate says "1769", which is a bit more realistic!  ;D
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pdedgar

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2009, 11:43:53 PM »
Yes there are two watch gears behind the tang.
Also it is walnut stock. Yes its 1769

Paul

Offline tallbear

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2009, 01:47:42 AM »
I have always like this fowler ever since seeing it in Grinsdales book.Have though about makeing one but needed some better pics.A big thanks to the owner for posting them!!!

Mitch

Mr. Jones

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2009, 05:34:53 AM »

   That's impressive, and interesting to see!  I see the rear notch for sighting, but is that hole for a rear post sight? 

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 04:38:53 PM »

   That's impressive, and interesting to see!  I see the rear notch for sighting, but is that hole for a rear post sight? 
I don't know what that hole is for but I doubt it's for a rear sight post as this is a smooth bored gun. Interesting to see it had a rear sight dovetailed at the breech at one time.
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Offline Ben I. Voss

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2009, 05:49:52 AM »
Does anyone have an explanation as to why there is more space inside the trigger guard behind the trigger than in front of it? I've seen that on a lot of original guns and it doesn't make sense to me!

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2009, 06:48:04 AM »
I suspect because its an awkward, gunsmith-made trigger guard. It looks like its bent to shape rather than cast. I also suspect that the entire gun is somewhat later than the date on the buttplate, which I think is re-used from an earlier gun. There is good reason to believe that a lock marked "Ketland & Co." isn't likely to pre-date 1785 with a date after 1790 being far more likely. From the point of view of New England guns, I see nothing here to preclude a date as late as 1810-1812.

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 05:55:29 AM »
One other possibility here: the lock could have been replaced later using the Ketland plate which clearly is later than the date on the gun.
Dick

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: ALR Museum: Another New England Fowler date 1769
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2009, 08:11:28 PM »
Yes, I agree that to be a real possibility though my own feeling (and its just that, a feeling) is that the gun dates about 1790-1800. I thought the lock fit too well to be a replacement and, of course, we can't see how the touch hole lines up. If it isn't just about perfect I'd say you are right and the lock is replaced.

Then, to cast doubt on my own observations, I'll add that we don't generally appreciate how close to identical large lots of imported locks may have been. Their parts were made to specific sizes by highly skilled specialized workmen who usually only handled one part, so a "lockplate forger" would work to a pattern and his work would have had to be easily adaptable to the work of the tumbler maker, the spring maker etc. A case of "musket" or "rifle" size locks were probably very close to interchangeable (at least in fitting a lock mortise) including the side nail holes which had to be drilled and treaded since the lockplates were hardened before the locks were shipped. While it might be difficult to find "a lock that fits" today, it may not have been quite the same challenge when you could go down to Payson & Nurse (Boston hardware dealers) and go through a barrel of locks.