Smooth bore accuracy

[Mauser06]

I shot my 62cal smoothbore yesterday for the first time on paper.

I only have .600" swaged balls right now..they will not fit down the bore with a patch.

With 105gr of 2f goex and a thin (1/8" I believe) cardboard type wad between the powder and ball and over the ball I produced this..



To be honest it's not a great representation..I realized my target choice was poor for my sights.

That's a 3" group or so at 50yds.

I don't know smoothbores and what to expect or what to accept accuracy wise. 

Any input?  I'd like to find some .585 or .590 balls and patches.

[Pukka Bundook]

Sometimes a felt wad works as good as a patch, if ball is close to bore size.
Greased or lubed that is, it creates a nest for the ball to sit in and keeps it central in the bore.

Richard.

[Daryl]

3" at 50 yards is very good for a smoothbore. We've done this (1 of LB's 20 bores), with 3 different people shooting the gun, in testing, a 6 shot group of 3"- very round- almost perfectly so.

Mine won't do 3" at 50yards or doesn't seem to want to. I suspect I need more practice with it and maybe need to remove the choke, but it shoots shot so well, that isn't going to happen.

My flinter smoothbore will shoot reasonably well out to 28/30 yards, though.

[hanshi]

Mauser06, about 2.75" to 3.0" is about the best mine will do at 50 yards for 3 shots.  The bore is tight in mine as well, but not quite as tight as yours.  This is with a .600" lead ball and .015" patch.  With a WW .606" ball seated on a lubed wad, 5 shots stay in about the area of 5"-6" or a bit less.  That's under pie plate size and good for 50 yards.  I'm sure that with a .610" ball my accuracy would be about what you get.  Yours is good accuracy, both gun and you.

[Mauser06]

Thanx all! 

Didn't know what was realistic to expect. 

I really believe with a different target I can likely squeeze it down a bit.  I've read with smoothbores that you'll get flyers once in a while for no good apparent reason..

I have no issues hunting with how it's shooting now.


A white/orange target and a highly polished brass blade just didn't mesh well.  It didn't dawn on me to shoot just my brown cardboard till I was out of balls lol.  I can see the sights really well on it.


The barrel was a Colerain turkey barrel...I had the choke taken out and a jug put in. So I'm just getting into the smoothbores and balls.

I will be deer hunting with it this winter. 

[Mike Brooks]

That sure is a lot of powder, but a 3" group isn't a bad group @ 50 yards

[Hungry Horse]

Lots of powder, and no patching is the secret nobody wants to hear. I would not put anything between the powder and ball. Hold it all in place with a piece of wool blanket, or some tow.

  Hungry Horse

[Mauser06]

I was waiting for you to tell me that again! 

From what I've read on here, it sounded like bare ball loads usually shoot better with extra powder behind it...

Best reason not to mess around much more is it seems to shoot straight... and my sights already shoot how I like with my turkey loads. That's a win in my book! 

The vast majority of my deer are under 50yds with a Flintlock so a 3" or so group doesn't worry me.

[Mauser06]

Hungry Horse, what would you consider for a powder range loaded like that?? 

I'm open to anything.  I love shooting and experimenting. I will certainly try any suggestions!

[Pukka Bundook]

Although I have had decent luck (for a rubbish off-hand shot!)with a wad and no patch, a pal in England recently took gold with his original  Brown Bess musket, using a lower than usual charge and  a patched ball.
Here is his target, 13 rounds, ten best to score.   Shot at 50 Metres, or  55 yards, off-hand .  Score 96.

[Hungry Horse]

Mauser06;
 You are in the ballpark for  the powder charge. You want to create a cone of hot gas around the ball that keeps it from contacting the barrel as much as possible. I use a ball in the .590 to.595 range in my twenty gauge. My gun was built from an old shotgun barrel and the bore is .620, which is a little bigger than most modern muzzleloading twenty gauges. I like 2F, but have used 1F as well. You want to push the ball out the barrel, rather than blow it out the barrel.  The round ball will fly true until the velocity bleeds off and the ball loses its stability. You may be able to extend the accurate range by bumping up the powder charge. Felt recoil will be minimal because the gas is not trapped, and danger to the gun is minimal for the same reason. You will find the gun dirtier than you have ever thought possible though. Good luck.

 

  Hungry Horse

[Mauser06]

Pukka, I figured that real low charges may shoot well too..I haven't tried them..but had that hunch.


Hungry Horse, thank you!  That's good information. Makes sense. Interesting you shoot a SMALLER ball. Your setup is probably looser than mine. Mine will drop down the bore..but it's pretty close. I figured my bore must be .610". My balls are .600".

I enjoy shooting and experimenting. To me, that's a big part of my love and addiction to Flintlocks. Trigger time also equates to a more accurate shooter. It's almost like archery..I can always shoot "OK". But when I'm shooting my Flintlocks regularly, I shoot them much better.

[Daryl]

Although I have had decent luck (for a rubbish off-hand shot!)with a wad and no patch, a pal in England recently took gold with his original  Brown Bess musket, using a lower than usual charge and  a patched ball.
Here is his target, 13 rounds, ten best to score.   Shot at 50 Metres, or  55 yards, off-hand .  Score 96.

Interesting picture Richard - those look like .45 to .50 calibre holes to me (smaller or same size as your his tips).  I could easily be wrong, but I think someone is pulling your leg. I've never seen a Bess less than 11 bore, ie: .75cal. Those make huge holes, especially with tearing using small charges of powder.

[Pukka Bundook]

Daryl,

The target is the Concours, (French) target.
It is much bigger than the standard B 17 target,  See the size of the hands compared to the target??

No -one is pulling my leg.  The gent in question has taken gold in International and National shoots  . (Yes it Is recorded.), and had a close run at times as others can also shoot well.
   Please do not say "Interesting" as we know what that means.   

It is not very often that  I get narked, but if you Look at the size of the fingers, you can see that they'd go straight through those holes.

The Brown Bess is a .760" .  He also shoots   musket -bore Percussion and has scores very similar.

  I would Not post anything here that was not right.


Richard.

See this thread, for the Concours target and such;
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/proposed-bmf-international-percussion-smoothbore-m-t20015.html

See also;

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/anyone-out-there-with-a-better-target-from-a-muske-t22207.html#p185323

The above shows the target and similar,  shot with .75-.76" bore muskets..

[smylee grouch]

Shoot all the combinations you can think of (10 shot groups) and save the targets so you can compare later. You will invariably get flyers so more shots will give you a better representation. Besides, shooting is fun. 

[OldMtnMan]

I've never owned a smooth bore. I had no idea they were this accurate. I always assumed everybody shot buckshot out of them.

[Bob Roller]

I've never owned a smooth bore. I had no idea they were this accurate. I always assumed everybody shot buckshot out of them.

This has stirred a thought in my enfeebled brain.I wonder if ANY one has ever made
a muzzle loading paradox style of barrel.A long,gradually tapered bore with the last
6 inches rifled.It could be done with a rifled barrel and careful reaming so the patch
might stay with the ball during transition from smooth to rifled.

Bob Roller

[Pukka Bundook]

Pete,

If I did the shooting it'd be as bad as you thought!  LOL!

These blokes take it rather seriously, and wear a shooting jacket, like a straight jacket I think...never had one myself.

Bob,
If the powder charge was up these, a barrel as you describe would work I think.

When I used the musket with 120-odd grains of 2F, (what I had) the.750 " ball expanded and filled the bore that measures .760", so if your theoretical barrel was 'choked ' all the way to the rifling, the patch would have to stay put.
I was using a thick wad below the ball and a thinner on top  when I noted recovered balls had an 'equator' or flat section around their girth.

Richard.

[Daryl]

I will most certainly take your word for it, Richard, however I did look at the fingers which are rather pointy compared to my 10 thumbs, thus figured the holes smaller, obviously, than that are.

I did observe and I do understand the target size.  I'm not new to this sort of thing, called target scoring. 

I was able to shoot a decent target at 50 meters with Taylor's 1742 Bess - the 10 bore, using a .735" ball and close to a .030" patch, but was only 5 shots & that was MANY years ago.

[hanshi]

Smoothbores can certainly be amazingly accurate.  Basically it's a simple matter of working up a good load.  My load is fine for hunting and casual shooting at a bit past 50 yards.  My - somewhat limited - experience has been that patched ball is usually the more accurate; but good "bare ball" loads can surprise even prb shooters.  I have a target of 10 shots from the 50 yard line.  One shot was an unabashed flyer and a second one was out of the group.  Considering my eyes and loss of some skill, 8 of those shots went into a group of about 2.75".  Though very good, it was a task to seat the prb.  In that case I used .606" WW ball; which in my tight bore was a bear to seat.  Using soft lead .600" ball and a patch of .012" to .020" the load seats with reasonable pressure and is accurate.  But with my bare ball loads I can kill any paper plate at that range.

[ddoyle]

Dang you got lucky there, Just think how much time/powder you may have burned getting to similar or worse results! Looks like you found a go to hunting load.

Thanks for sharing nice to see examples of reasonable expectations.

[Mike Brooks]

I shot the above target at F-ship many , many times with my 28ga. best I could do was a 96. I could never shoot that 96 with an original bess, that's some incredible shooting.

[Pukka Bundook]

Mike,

Martyn (Pommy B or X-ring services)  and I tried out muskets off a rest at 50 yards.
Bad idea!   we shot out 13 round group, and did get all shots in 3 1/2" to 4 " but with our at the time 120-odd grains, we got our faces whumped pretty well.

Should have saved it till last , as it put us off our other targets with our sore and lumpy faces!
Next time we'll just try It prone, LOL!

That wee short matchlock shot into about 4 1/2 " both ways at 60 yards the other day, but I Was resting my elbows.   Patches were too tight, so after a few bare balls I used a greased wad and it worked.  (.60 is a roll-down fit.) and 75 grs of 2F.)

[yulzari]

Martyn (Pommy B or X-ring services)  and I tried out muskets off a rest at 50 yards.
Bad idea!   we shot out 13 round group, and did get all shots in 3 1/2" to 4 " but with our at the time 120-odd grains, we got our faces whumped pretty well.

Richard. What were you two doing firing a musket from a rest? A gentleman fires standing up.

My 8 gram (124 grains to benighted foreign heathens) load of 1f hurts me not at all when fired as gentlefolk should.

OT. Richard. Did you know that ex President Mugabe of Zimbabwe is actually a Yorkshireman? He cunningly disguised his true name by reversing it from 'e ba gum'...   I'll get my coat.

[Pukka Bundook]

John,

First things first;

Good to see you here, my dear chap!

"Ex president'?? I live a sheltered life here in the Colonies!  Could be right on't name though, Ow'd lad!
What were we doing shooting in an ungentlemanly manner?.........
We were trying the muskets for accuracy, and eliminating as much of the shooter error as poss.
It Was  from a standing rest, but the old beasts  still bit us a few times.   Looked like hamsters afterwards.
My load was 123 grains.  (2 throws of a flask)

That's my excuse for conduct beneath that of a gentleman anyway!

The above charge is nae baither off hand...  Like they Should be fired....