Smooth bore accuracy

[Daryl]

So how many of you 3 inch group guys ......doing that without a rear sight on your Smoothbore Flintah ?

No rear sights allowed in the smoothbore events, at our club or at Hefley Creek.(Rendezvous B.C.)
I have thought I might put one on my 20 bore, just to see if I could get a group with it at 50 yards or more -

will likely will do that using crazy glue. Bit of heat and off it'll come.

I just mounted rear sights on mine and Len's 20 bores. Once the wind dies down a bit, we'll get out and shoot some paper with them.

[kudu]

I live in michigan and shoot at Grand Valley Cap and Ballers often. I dont know Tip Curtis but they have some very good members their.

The Best off hand shooters in the country right Now, are the "Marsh's" Harry and Tim. Father and son.
They shoot groups offhand that most cant shoot of a Bench.
Harry been shooting smooth bore competition lately with real high scores.
His son Tim has some sort of "Gift" he has broken so many records the last few Years. and some are long standing records!
 

[John SMOthermon]

Guys I finally made it to Tip's  place today.

After picking up a few small items I had a talk with him about this target.
 
He said it was shot years ago at the Grand Valley Cap and Ball Range.

The first thing Tip said is... "You want to see the gun".

To be honest with y'all when he handed me the gun , I think I kinda' went brain dead.

Tip said "Cock It"....... I'm telling you Guys it felt like it just rolled back with hardly any effort. 

Tip was watching me when I cocked it and he had a big smile on his face as I commented on the smoothness of the lock.

The smoothbore did not have a rear sight mounted on it.

He used 80 grns of ffg powder and a dry patch.

The gun has a .58 cal Colerain barrel on it , again brain dead didn't ask the length,

But I'm guessing 44" to 46".

Still in shock , I forgot to ask about the lock as well...

Tip told me the gun was 55 years old.

Man was it sweet and well balanced .

The gun was unusually heavy for a smoothbore.

Nope, I didn't ask... 

Didn't even think to take a photo of the gun... What a Dummy I am.

Tip was busy getting a 20 gauge smoothbore ready to ship to Oregon, so I didn't want to keep him from getting someones gun shipped.

He has still got a show room full of eye candy and first place ribbons and awards.

And He is a Wealth of Knowledge...wish I lived closer.

[Bbell]

I appreciate it! Thank you!  How did it look? I just ordered a fusil de chasse from Tip and sent him my money the other day. I live in Oregon so more than likely it is mine. First flintlock and smoothbore so I am excited. I will post pics of it when I get it.

Brandon

[Flint62Smoothie]

I don’t think Tip had a rear sight. Another question I will ask.

FWIW when I visited w/ Tip, I recall it being a well/developed patched roundball load, but he looked me in the eye and said “ ... but there was more work done on the shooter”.

Which I took as meaning that he practiced and really, really WORKED at it! I would surmise that he shot nothing else that year but shoot that one firelock!

[John SMOthermon]

I’m sure he ran a ton of round ball’s down the tube.

You don’t get targets like that one by just being lucky. LOL

[John SMOthermon]

I appreciate it! Thank you!  How did it look? I just ordered a fusil de chasse from Tip and sent him my money the other day. I live in Oregon so more than likely it is mine. First flintlock and smoothbore so I am excited. I will post pics of it when I get it.

Brandon

Sorry BB I was busy looking at other things and didn’t really pay that much attention to your gun.

 I’m sure you will be pleased with it .

[Greg Beaman]

I KNOW this is bringing this one back from the dead but one time visiting with Tip he told me that when he shot that target he was burning through 6 cases of bp a year. That is a lot of smoke!  Greg

[Bsharp]

I have a question, do the best shooters have any choke? Or taper, or step in the bore, or are they just straight?

[Daryl]

Bsharp - I would say no choke, or jug choke would be best.  My 20 bore has a standard choke and
does not shoot round balls very well past very close range 25 to 30yards.  I seem to get more "fliers"
than the guys without choked bls.

[Maven]

I have a question, do the best shooters have any choke? Or taper, or step in the bore, or are they just straight?

Proof positive that practice makes perfect, I'd say.

[Bsharp]

I have a question, do the best shooters have any choke? Or taper, or step in the bore, or are they just straight?

Proof positive that practice makes perfect, I'd say.

Sorry for not making it clear, I was referring to the guns, not the people.

[Daryl]

My own personal observations, Bsharp, would indicate no choke works best for round ball accuracy.
As well, I had a 'slight' jug choked small bore smoothbore, that shot round balls very accurately as well.

[Bsharp]

I just remember 30 years ago it was a big secret to what shot better than most.  Guess it still is!

[EC121]

I shot this today.  Just guessed at the load.   80gr. 3f, .595s and a couple of .600s with a snug patch and a dry patch under it because I forgot the 20ga. wads.  There are some flyers, but the heat and mirage plus me trying to shoot higher caused most of them. Not being a real smoothbore shooter, I was surprised when I saw the group form.  50yds. offhand.  The blue tape and magic marker is me recycling a target.  The gun is my James Klein LH fowler. 

[Daryl]

5 shots, 28 yards with a standard choked barrel.
ball specs & load on the target

[hanshi]

Sights or no sights not only depends on where/if one shoots matches but also the shooter's proclivities.  Sights on smoothbores are H/C but many prefer a slick-top barrel.  Ol' Loudmouf is a 20ga and I specified a rear sight.  I don't shoot smoothbore matches but I do hunt with that gun and use patched ball.  It's great, IMHO, to be able to shoot a smoothbore as if it were a rifle.  I did put an extra wide notch in the rear.  It shoots shot to virtually the same POI as ball; just maybe 2" lower and that's not an issue.  Accuracy at 50 yards (my sort of "limit") is superb with 3-shot groups (ave 3").  It enabled me to make a nice running shot on a deer a few years ago.

I can still shoot well; it's just that I can't see what I'm shooting at. 

[Hungry Horse]

 A choked smoothbore with a traditional choke will shoot pretty accurately out to about fifty yards or so if you don’t patch the ball, and make sure the ball is about 20 thousandths under the diameter of the choked section of the barrel.the problem is that they plug up faster than a cylinder bored gun. I have seen jug choked smoothbores shoot a patched ball pretty well a time or two, but have not seen one shoot a bare ball all that well.

  Hungry Horse

[Bsharp]

My own personal observations, Bsharp, would indicate no choke works best for round ball accuracy.
As well, I had a 'slight' jug choked small bore smoothbore, that shot round balls very accurately as well.

What about a tapered bore?

And hardness of lead, is a bit harder than soft better?

[Daryl]

Test it and tell us how it did with all load parameters.

[Bsharp]

After I get the 7 ga. Jug choked, I may try some scrap lead bare balls.

But first I have to come up with some type of "flight stopper" wads. Some heavy card stock with a base and wings that open, letting the shot separate from the wad.

I only want to kill one turkey, not the whole flock!

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

BSharp:  something that'll tighten up your shot cloud is this...take some post'it notes, make cylinders that just fit your bore, close in the bottom by folding and gluing over a stick, and pour the shot into them.  The cylinder of paper seems to keep the shot together a little further out.

[Bsharp]

BSharp:  something that'll tighten up your shot cloud is this...take some post'it notes, make cylinders that just fit your bore, close in the bottom by folding and gluing over a stick, and pour the shot into them.  The cylinder of paper seems to keep the shot together a little further out.

I have had some of them turn into near slugs!

I bet with the jug choke, they will open nicely!

[Daryl]

Years ago you could purchase shot+wad assembled"ctgs" for loading in cylinder bore guns.  They had paper wrapping of different coloured wrapping
designating different ranges of use. These ctg.s were just the base wad and shot & were loaded on top of your powder charge.
The green one was designated for deer or wolves to 50 yards, or for ducks at 90 yards or more. It took that long for the shot charge to spread.
The lighter colours were for closer range shooting at birds. Thus it can be seen, that 'changes' can be made to the post-it note ctgs. or bank-coin
wrappers that some guys use. Slits as with modern plastic shot-cups, even to using plastic shot cups to increase pattern density - BUT- a card wad
barrier must be lowed first over the powder charge to prevent the powder flame from melting the plastic and coating the bore -
go ahead and ask me how I know this! IT happens- BUT the plastic wad can improve cylinder bore shot charge patterns.  Steel-shot plastic cups are
even better as they are stiffer - just be sure to load a 1/8" or 1/4" tight fitting card wad on the powder.
It usually takes a bit more powder to get the shot cup to open well - oh goodie - more experimentation to do!
You have to try it in your gun before you will know how it works - in your gun.