Lead Hardness and Patched Round Balls

[Fiftyfour]

I can understand how the unit weight of different batches of lead can result in round balls that weigh differently.
With a patched ball, isn't just the patch engaging with the rifling? If this is the case why does it matter is the lead is
Somewhat hard as long as the balls have a uniform weight?
Thanks

[OldMtnMan]

The ball still expands on ignition, so hardness does affect accuracy. Plus, soft lead balls are easier to load. Of course how they expand in game matters too if you hunt.

[Maven]

Consistent ball/bullet weights are a good thing regardless of whether we're using pure Pb or "hard[er]" Pb.  The problem is that hard/harder Pb is really an alloy and will -> balls or bullets of a slightly greater diameter than those cast of pure. soft Pb, which can mean harder starting and seating + the need for a [slightly] thinner patch to compensate for that eventuality.

[rich pierce]

It will be more difficult to get a tight sealing ball/patch load in a bore with deep grooves when lead is harder, because it doesn’t deform as easily.  Same diameter ball and patch combo typically used will be very hard to load compared to pure lead. At least that is my experience with a batch of harder lead.

(Having fun with Daryl) Your experience may vary above the 44th parallel.   

[hanshi]

Never, of course, mix alloy and soft lead and expect the same performance as soft lead alone.  I've found that harder alloy ball works great in smoothbores but requires some thought if used in rifles.  I would hesitate to use alloy in the deep groove bores.

In barrels with, say, .008" to .012" deep grooves good performance can be achieved by using a slightly smaller ball and a good thick patch or in the smaller calibers - .45 & under - loaded just like soft lead ball is loaded.  Older WW are fairly hard and make good ball.  In the smaller calibers mentioned the size increase is actually quite minimal and in my .600" mold is only .606" while pure lead is a true .600".  For small game with a .36, .40, for example, WW ball works fine; and expansion isn't needed.  WW ball is very difficult to conform to the rifling so a thick patch, or the same patch, will conform to crush into the grooves and spin the ball, which does not press into the grooves.  Even linotype can sometimes produce a "level" of success but is really too hard to mess with.

[Daryl]

Were I unable to procure pure lead and had to use hardened lead, I would invest in a change of barrels for my fast twist (48") rifle barrels. I would obtain barrels of shallower rifling, coupled

with slower twists.  The slower twist will allow shallower rifling, which will, as Rich noted, be easier loading. They would likely need more powder to produce the same accuracy. That is pretty much

a given.

In my .69, I use both hard and soft lead.  The mould I used for soft lead balls makes .682" balls of 484gr. weight.  The mould for the hardened lead makes .677" balls of approx. 474gr. , thus in

that 14 bore rifle, if using hard lead, I use 15 bore balls. I believe that was the norm used in shallow, slow twist 14 bore barrels back in the 19th century.

The hard balls load just fine with the same .030" patch that I have been using in the .69 since 1986.  It is quite difficult, although not impossible to load that patch with a .684" WW ball.  I have

recently found some .022" (compressed) canvas that is a bit stiff even after washing and does not compress well at all, being very similar to linen in that stead. It resists cutting, burning and

seems to shoot reasonably well with the pure lead balls, however it will be way too thin for use with the undersized hard balls.

Here is a 10 shot group with that 14 bore rifle, off a rest, at 50yards range, but using the 15 bore size mould - but - with pure lead balls.  If the patch is thick enough, the gun will still group

 reasonably well. That much is obvious.

To exemplify that, I then tried 16 bore balls which are from a .662" Lyman mould & used 2, .017"(compressed) denim patches - 8 ounce I think they were.  At 82gr. of powder, the patches were OK

although showing some scorch marks.

A test of 3 shots with 100gr. of powder showed the doubled .017" were too thin as they burned through and threw shots well out of the group, by a good 4".

I will note here, that when playing this sort of 'game', the larger bores are generally less effected by this sort of disproportionate sizing, than are the higher pressure generating, smaller bore

sizes.

[Fiftyfour]

Is a lead alloy that is soft enough scratch with your thumbnail reasonable for a flintlock rifle?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

One of our problems is we're talking about two different lead allows here.  For Canadians, whleel weights are an alloy of lead which when cst into balls, can still be marked with the thumb nail, but are noticeably harder to load into your rifle.  the lead alloy does not compress, mold and form itself to the rifling like pure lead does.  And that is the answer to the OP's question.  In order to completely seal to the bottom of the grooves in your bore, you need a patch thick and tough enough to compress in the bottoms of the grooves.  In doing so, the lands will deform the lead to a certain degree, impressing the weave of the cloth into the lead.  That's what grips the lead for it's violent journey to the muzzle and finally through the centre of your target.  A hard ball that cannot be compressed and thus engage the weave of the cloth will likely not shoot as accurately.  It will not obdurate or 'bump up' as well as soft lead.  And the harder lead is more likely to cut the patch upon seating at the muzzle and running it down the bore to the charge, thereby ruining accuracy.
You will find a load of patch thickness, ball diameter, and lead headness that will shoot satisfactorily in your rifle, but it is easier with soft lead.

[hanshi]

While I've experimented with WW ball - also can be scratched with a fingernail - experiment with it is all I do; I don't use it in the bush.  Soft lead, otoh, is what I use for everything, with the exception of some smoothbore loads.  So far the best patch material I've found is cotton canvas duck.  It measures .022" when I crush it as hard as my hands and caliper can accomplish.  Prb loads with some difficulty but is still readily done with the wood rod.  No scorch marks at all on the recovered patches which could be reused if needed.  In my radiused Rice barrels with .016" grooves, no discoloration shows up on any of the patches; and that material refuses to tear.  It loads more easily for me than 10oz denim and gives identical results.  I may try and see what it does with WW ball.