Cleaning a Hawken

[iloco]

What is the best way to clean the inside of the breech where the nipple is located on a Hawken Rifle. How do you get the fouling out of that area.
 Herb how do you do it if you look at this thread.

[smylee grouch]

If you are referring to the patent breech plug I remove the nipple and flush with lots of cold water, pumping a wet patch up and down so water forces fouling out and then dry with dry patches and a cotton swab in nipple seat. After dry use WD-40 and wipe out excess the same way you cleaned it.

[iloco]

Yes that is what I was referring to. Thanks.

[OldMtnMan]

I also flush with water and soap in a bucket. Before doing that when the barrel and breech channel is still dry I use a breech brush. (link at bottom). I also remove the nipple and clean out screw if the gun has one and use special pipe cleaners to get out what the breech brush missed. Then I go ahead and flush. I used to just flush and found the breech channel would slowly build up with fouling.

http://www.octobercountry.com/msm-breech-brush/

[iloco]

I also flush with water and soap in a bucket. Before doing that when the barrel and breech channel is still dry I use a breech brush. (link at bottom). I also remove the nipple and clean out screw if the gun has one and use special pipe cleaners to get out what the breech brush missed. Then I go ahead and flush. I used to just flush and found the breech channel would slowly build up with fouling.

http://www.octobercountry.com/msm-breech-brush/

Thanks for the info and link.  I will get me a couple of thos brushes.

[BigLead]

I clean my BP's first by setting a tea pot on the stove and heat up some water to just boiling.  I remove the nipple and put it in a small s.s. dish to soak.  With the help of a small funnel, I pour scalding water down the barrel, holding it with a pot holder or welder's glove, until the barrel is way too hot to hold in your bare hand.  This flushes most of the fouling out.  I then use a patch with conventional product to remove fouling, although there is very little left by now.  Next is a patch or two to dry out the bore.  The hot barrel will evaporate any residual moisture inside very quickly.  Next is a patch or two to oil.  I use Natural Lube 1000 (I think that's the name, has 1000 in it). Next I use a tooth brush to scrub around the nipple area and the nipple that has been soaking.  A little carb spray or brake cleaner to blow out the nipple and a final all-over wipe down with an oily patch  I'm done.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Biglead:  I disagree vehemently with practically everything you just wrote.  I consider that system the fastest and surest way to destroy a bore.

[OldMtnMan]

Hot water works great if you put a little Ballistol in the water to prevent flash rusting. I've done it for decades and my bores shine like the top of my head.

[Standing Bear]

If you are referring to the patent breech plug I remove the nipple and flush with lots of cold water, pumping a wet patch up and down so water forces fouling out and then dry with dry patches and a cotton swab in nipple seat. After dry use WD-40 and wipe out excess the same way you cleaned it.

X2 but I don’t remove the touch hole liner.

[smokinbuck]

X3 with Taylor. Cold water flush, dry and oil. I use a tea ball to soak the nipple.
Mark

[Scota4570]

I have never taken great pain to remove every speck from the breech plug crevices.  I do use lots of water.  That dissolves and salts that would cause rusting later.  Small amounts of residual carbon does not seem to cause any problems.  Mostly I use Fluid film rust preventative.  For guns I might never shoot or look at again I use LPS-3 or heat the barrel and use real cosmoline.

[iloco]

X3 with Taylor. Cold water flush, dry and oil. I use a tea ball to soak the nipple.
Mark

What is a tea ball....?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

 I use a tea ball to soak the nipple.

That is clever!  A tea ball is a small container having a closing lid, either screw capped or spring loaded, into which you place tea leaves.  You then immerse the tea ball into boiled water to create an infusion - tea.  I've never lost a nipple while cleaning, but I've had them roll off the table in the field and had to search the grass 'til I found it.  The tea ball looks after than issue.

[BigLead]

Well Mr. Sapergia, all I can say is I have a gun built from a semi-custom kit 36 years ago, that has NO rust in the bore and shoots as good today as it ever has.  The bore is not left long enough to rust.  The barrel is so hot after the flushing, the small of amount of moisture inside evaps, and before rust can begin, I have lubed the bore.  The  bore being hot, opens the 'pores' of the steel and makes it more receptive to the lube.  I love to hear the varied information from all points of view, especially from those who have much more experience than me.  But, I'm no tenderfoot, been doin it this way for over 36 yrs now.  I'm not sayin everybody else's  way is wrong or not as good, I'm just sayin it works for me.  I can assure you the bore in that .52 is NOT destroyed.   

[smylee grouch]

When it comes to the flash rust issue there are a lot of opinions out there. I know it happens to some and not to others so could it be possible that some barrels from different makers using different steels flash rust while other made with a different steel don't flash rust.

[OldMtnMan]

Some might be getting flash rust and not be aware of it. When they oil after cleaning it soaks it up.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

With the greatest respect, I'm not going to go toe to toe with you over this.  You have your way and it certainly is different from mine - polar, in fact.

What concerns me is some first timer out there using your method and destroying his barrel.  My experience, which is not inconsequential, says hot water leaves a film of rust in the bore as the water evapourates.  Any time you run a dry patch down the bore and come out red, even a little, you have cancer in your bore.  It is permanent - can only removed surgically.  Not worth taking a chance, when water that is just comfortable to the skin works just as well without the danger of the rust.

I agree to disagree.

[deepcreekdale]

I will only add to the debate to say that Colerain barrels, on their website recommends using hot water to clean their barrels. As did Ned Roberts in his classic book The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle. As many others have, I have only used boiling hot water for many years to clean my barrels with no ill effects. If there has been any of this mysterious flash rust that will destroy the bore, I have yet too see it after 40 years. Obviously one would dry and oil the bore immediately after cleaning. I am sure if someone poured boiling water down a bore, and dumped it out without wiping, they might have a problem.  If someone feels uncomfortable doing so, then they should use the method that works best for them. I value everyone's opinion and read and listen to anyone with experience. That does not mean I do not respectfully disagree.

[Clark Badgett]

I use hot water, not boiling, just as it comes from the tap. I remove the barrel and put the nipple end in a bucket and after a few cups of water poured thru it, I add more water to the bucket until it covers the nipple and then use a rod with a patch wrapped jag to pump water in and out until I feel it's enough. I then make sure to dry everything out real well on the outside and inside. WD40 displaces water really good, but if left will get gummy so clean it all out too. I then use veg or olive oil as lube in the bore and outside.

[OldMtnMan]

I don't actually boil the water, but the boiler in this building works pretty good. The hot water will actually burn you if not mixed with some cold water. So, it's pretty hot.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Each to his own.

[OldMtnMan]

Each to his own.

I know you're trying to help, but it's hard to change from a method that works for decades. I have a bore light and I have no rust at all. Although like I said earlier. I do add a little Ballistol to the hot water for flushing and rinse. That could be why it's working for me.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I guess I'm a little opinionated on this issue.  A dear friend of mine nearly ruined his rifle (my make) by listening to the advice of his shooting friends.  He used boiling water, and flash rusted his bore to the point that he could not load it.  Daryl and I spent two full days lapping the bore to bring it back, which we did. but even now, it is still difficult to clean.  Hot water is not for me.

[OldMtnMan]

He did something wrong that wasn't the hot water. Did he dry and oil right away?

If two guys use hot water and one gets rust and the other doesn't. Where is the problem?

[fstreed]

I haven't had much to say on this forum because the very idea that I can tell most of you guys anything you don't already know is laughable. So I keep my mouth shut and ears open. But I do agree about the flash rusting from hot water. I used to do that and would get that little smudge of red on a patch afterwards. So I went to cold water. Hot water doesn't affect my stainless Ruger Old Army but even it cleans up just as well with cold water. To each their own, of course, but the hot water doesn't seem to have any real advantage to me.

OK, I'll shut up now. Maybe in another year or so I'll have something else to say.