Attention Hawken builders

[Roger B]

I have recently found that 1 1/8" Hawken hooked breech sets are nearly unobtainable from most of our suppliers except TOW.  As I understand it, TOW has taken over production of the old Davis Hawken plugs, and they have them available as "Jim Bridger" sets.  Unfortunately I've had two of them, and find them to be very inferior to the Davis product.  It doesn't look like Pete Allen is producing his either right now.  Happily, L & R apparently makes an 1 1/8" Hawken hooked breech (though I can't find it listed on their site), and I just ordered one from Pecatonica who had it in stock. Hopefully it will prove to be satisfactory.  Please understand that my intention is not to "flame" TOW, as I order quite a bit of merchandise from them and have found them to be satisfactory in every other way.  Rather, I would like to encourage Track to improve the quality of their product, and inform other Hawken builders that there may be an alternative if you find that you share my opinion.
Roger B.

[Hungry Horse]

 I’m pretty sure I bought one from The Gun Works in Oregon last spring.

  Hungry Horse

[Roger B]

I wish I had thought of The Gunworks!  I love ordering from them, and it would have saved me some money as they are about $20.00 lower than the going prices I have found.  If the L & R doesn't work out, I'll give them a call.  Since it says "manufactured by custom", I wonder who (perhaps them?) made it?  I also found a neat 1 1/8" iron Hawken half stock nose cap I'm going to need.  Thanks for the reminder!
Roger B.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I have recently found that 1 1/8" Hawken hooked breech sets are nearly unobtainable from most of our suppliers except TOW.  As I understand it, TOW has taken over production of the old Davis Hawken plugs, and they have them available as "Jim Bridger" sets.  Unfortunately I've had two of them, and find them to be very inferior to the Davis product.  It doesn't look like Pete Allen is producing his either right now.  Happily, L & R apparently makes an 1 1/8" Hawken hooked breech (though I can't find it listed on their site), and I just ordered one from Pecatonica who had it in stock. Hopefully it will prove to be satisfactory.  Please understand that my intention is not to "flame" TOW, as I order quite a bit of merchandise from them and have found them to be satisfactory in every other way.  Rather, I would like to encourage Track to improve the quality of their product, and inform other Hawken builders that there may be an alternative if you find that you share my opinion.
Roger B.

OK -- so what's the "inferior" part of the set??

[Roger B]

One set of castings looked as if it had been thrown around a great deal.  Lots of dings, etc.  The second set was better.  On  both sets, the portion of the standing breech that makes up the rear of the bolster when it is mated with the plug is much thicker than plug bolster.  When you finally get them together, you will have to take a rock to the standing breech in order to smooth the whole mess out.  The standing breech/tang don't really look like they belong with the plug.  Finally, the caption Track puts with the set states that they "virtually snap together" which couldn't be further from the truth. After a couple of hours of carefully filing and fitting, the best I can do is about 1/32" gap between the two pieces.  I'll admit that my results could be attributed to a certain ham handedness, but I've put together a few Hawken hooked breeches over the years and never had this much difficulty and never with the Davis product.  No gripes with the threading of the plug or drilling and threading of the nipple seat, though. I just think that, over all, Track could do better for the price of the product.
Roger B. 

[Herb]

Tow's 1 1/8" Hawken tang has too much hump in the tang and too much drop in the tail.  Takes a lot of work to make it look like it should.  I do not like it at all.  I can't remember if I have used an Oregon Gun Works Hawken 1 1/0" plug and tang, but it is probably better.

[Scota4570]

Track will sell you rough castings.  Finish them however you want.  I did not care for certain details of the one supplied with my "kit". So, I machined a rough casting.   

Until Jim Kibler does a Hawken kit authentic Hawkens will require a lot of extra work. 

[Roger B]

Agreed.  By design, the Hawken requires more work than a lot of other rifles, and they are hard to get "right".  My points are that 1 1/8" Hawken  hooked breeches are getting hard to find, that Track could do better at that price point, and builders can probably find a better article if they look somewhere else and avoid the cost and frustration I went through.  I guess I'm getting old and crochity, but when I pay good money for something, I expect it to be as advertised.
Roger B.

[iloco]

Track will sell you rough castings.  Finish them however you want.  I did not care for certain details of the one supplied with my "kit". So, I machined a rough casting.   

Until Jim Kibler does a Hawken kit authentic Hawkens will require a lot of extra work. 

I would like to see Jim Kibler come out with a Kit Carson Hawken kit. Guarantee his parts would be high quality.

[mountainman70]

Track will sell you rough castings.  Finish them however you want.  I did not care for certain details of the one supplied with my "kit". So, I machined a rough casting.   

Until Jim Kibler does a Hawken kit authentic Hawkens will require a lot of extra work. 

I would like to see Jim Kibler come out with a Kit Carson Hawken kit. Guarantee his parts would be high quality.

Another guarantee---- I will go broke for sure.  Dave F

[FlintFan]

I've heard this too, and as far as I know TOW simply purchased the Davis molds.  Not sure why they would be any different than ones sold by Davis in the past.  I've never seen the mold, but it is possible this could be an old epoxy mold that is starting to show it's age. Or maybe they are using a different foundry who aren't as careful with the waxes?  That could explain the difference in fit from past experiences with the same castings.  Or it may be as simple as the wrong tangs got matched with the wrong plugs.  Just a thought.

[redheart]

Most firms are having their parts made in China to maximize their profits. Sorry to say it, but it's a fact.

[FlintFan]

Most firms are having their parts made in China to maximize their profits. Sorry to say it, but it's a fact.

TOW is having their castings made in China!?!?

That appeared to be the insinuation, and I sure hope that has been fully substantiated before posting a claim like that on an open forum 

[rich pierce]

Let’s focus on helping each other find quality parts for our builds. We won’t discuss international sourcing of parts here. Materials, yes. Quality, yes. Design, yes. Availability, yes. Pricing, maybe.

[FlintFan]

So to hopefully clear up some of of the misinformation that can be thrown around on these forums, I decided to take a moment to find out.  It took TOW all of 30 seconds to answer my question.  All of their castings are made right here in the USA, like they always have been. 

Ain't the internet great.

[rich pierce]

Good job Flintfan!