Author Topic: Officers fusil  (Read 4147 times)

Offline moodyholler

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Officers fusil
« on: December 06, 2017, 04:19:15 AM »


Ketland and son marked lock, .65 caliber barrel, miniature beds furniture,

Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 04:22:35 AM »

Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 04:24:20 AM »



Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 04:25:55 AM »



Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 04:27:53 AM »



Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 04:29:40 AM »



Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 04:31:19 AM »



Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 05:26:55 AM »
It's a post-1813 export quality light musket - technically a "fusil" in the sense that it's lighter than an ordnance musket but certainly not an officer's arm. There were tens of thousands of these imported. Also, It is Ketland & Co. - not Ketland & Son. Only one Ketland son was ever in partnership with Thomas Ketland and that was his oldest son, William who died at least 10 years before this gun was made.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 04:33:07 PM »
I have heard these referred to as sergeants muskets as well. I believe they were a specific model, I'd have to look  in DeWitt Bailey's book and IO have no idea where I might have stashed it....., but I'd go with what JVP already said.
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Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 06:05:04 PM »
There were Sergeants muskets but they were much earlier. This gun was never an Ordnance musket - there are no ordnance marks and it is civilian proofed. It is roughly the same size as the "sergeant's fuzee" although I'd bet the caliber is larger - probably close to .75 when the sergeant's musket was .65. I have handled one of those. It now belongs to Don Troiani and has what could be described as miniature long land pattern hardware.

Real officer's fuzees are much more uncommon than most people seem to think and are always of much better quality - analgus to "officer quality" pistols and usually from the same makers. They were the arm of junior officers of infantry, intended to replace the spontoon in field service. Virtually all officers that were Majors or above were mounted, regardless of branch of service and could not conveniently carry a fuzee.

The main issue here, however, is quality. This is a very ordinary export grade musket of the type sold in the thousands in America and very commonly used by the militiamen who had to purchase their own arms.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 06:09:55 PM by JV Puleo »

Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 06:11:52 PM »
Yet at one time it had a sterling thumb piece and a sterling shield on side of butt stock. Why?

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 07:43:10 PM »
Virtually all militia muskets were the personal property of the individual militiaman so it's not at all surprising that some should be "personalized." This isn't at all uncommon. I have two with extensive silver wire inlay as well as silver escutcheons. Also, if the inlays aren't there, how do you know they were sterling? Could they have been tutinag (a British form of nickel silver) or brass? In any case, silver ornamentation on ordinary militia muskets isn't at all unusual.

In the purely British context, the subject does become confusing when we get to Volunteer muskets made for members of units recruited from the well-to-do. Outfits like the "Inns of Court Volunteers" where all of the privates came from the same social and economic station as officers were sometimes equipped with muskets that are effectively indistinguishable from officer's arms. That said, the fuzee was going out of fashion by the late 1790s – it was really a product of war in North America and although it almost certainly saw some use in Europe, it never seems to have been as much. In an American context, there is a question in my mind if they were ever commonplace as late as this gun, which is clearly post-War of 1812 and probably dates from about 1816-1820. Certainly it is well known that Washington would not allow their use in the Continental Army. Some militia officers may have carried a musket but given the lack of social distinction between officers and private soldiers in the American militia they may not have been much difference between those and any regular private's musket. Very little militia saw any active service after the War of 1812 and the officers' sword  was a far more significant reflection of social status and authority.

When I see "officer's fuzee" I generally think of an arm specifically made for an officer – not any musket an officer happened to carry. Again, in the British/American context these were never an item of issue.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 07:47:34 PM by JV Puleo »

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 07:54:02 PM »
Another bit... back in 1976 I attended the reenactment of the Battle of Lexington & Concord. The British were represented by the 10th Foot...an early and perhaps, at the time, the largest and most successful reenactment outfit. One of the sergeants showed me his "original" sergeant's musket. It was one of these late, export grade muskets but in this case it had a brass escutcheon and the reenactor had had it engraved "Xth Ft" or similar. That was 41 years ago...recently I saw what may well be the same musket, only now it is a "rare   Sergeants' musket marked to the 10th foot who were present at Lexington & Concord." Except, that it still has Birmingham proofs that couldn't have been applied until after 1813.

Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 09:57:34 PM »
And the .65 caliber carbine bore? That would be common on an export musket instead of the standard .69 or .75 of the period? Thanks for all the great information. moodyholler

Offline JV Puleo

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 02:22:08 AM »
The bores of export muskets aren't uniform but virtually all I've examined were between .69 and .75. I once had a smaller one, actually dated 1797, so smaller isn't impossible. The militia acts read that a musket "must accept a ball of 16 to the pound." This is about .63 caliber and was the standard musket ball for a .69 caliber gun. Many of the imported muskets are larger and, from my own observation, most of the composite muskets made up from old parts, are closer to .75... the standard for the Land Pattern British muskets. Composite muskets made from bits of old French arms, some captured during the F&I War, are, of course, .69 caliber.

Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 12:42:10 AM »
Thumb piece location



Offline moodyholler

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Re: Officers fusil
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 12:44:35 AM »
Cheek side of butt stock