Author Topic: Details on a Fainot patchbox  (Read 8640 times)

Offline rich pierce

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Details on a Fainot patchbox
« on: December 06, 2017, 07:13:43 PM »
I’ve been working on a fowling piece patterned after Fainot’s work. Several here helped me figure out construction details of his side-opening, surround patchboxes. It’s a complicated thing. The hinge is a separate piece with leaves that are riveted to the surround and the lid.




















Next challenge is to figure out the catch and spring. Last night I went to my ML club’s weekly “build, BS, and bourbon at Browner’s” and Bob himself noted a tiny detail I had missed.




Look very closely and in the area of the screw, rivet head, and buttplate, there is a sliver of silver along the edge between buttplate and surround. This led us to think this is where a spring for the lid catch is anchored.

It’s been a fun bit of detective work to try to figure out Fainot’s box construction techniques which seem unique to him, at least among Lancaster builders.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2022, 03:34:35 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 09:48:40 PM »
Golly, sure looks like a lot of work! ;)
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 09:55:26 PM »
It is, Mike. This should be a $500 patchbox. I notice you mostly stay away from complicated brass boxes in your builds.

I’m going to make a couple more while I still remember how.
Andover, Vermont

Offline SingleMalt

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 10:40:32 PM »
I agree with Mike, it's a lot of work.  But the payoff is having a unique patchbox.  I'm interested to see the release and the finished product.
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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 10:54:07 PM »
Rich, Looking good!! Is there a picture of the mechanism in RCA ?  I feel sure that I have seen that , somewhere before . I could be wrong though??  Nate

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 11:46:16 PM »
Nate, we’re blessed to have a fabulous example here in our library and it as the patchbox open!

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=15403.0

Here’s s nocevone sold a few years ago: https://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-2364-important-early-relief-carved-gun-attributed-to-george-frederick-fainot-49786/
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 11:48:34 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 11:59:25 PM »
The release latch looks like it's in the centre along the top edge of the lid.  So, what is the button in the top rear corner all about?  Quite an interesting project, Rich.
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Offline mark esterly

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 12:52:08 AM »
there are two more either side of the hinge side screw whatever they are for
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 12:56:16 AM »
Taylor, I suppose it’s fair to share images from the library.






temporary image upload

See the little brass knobs in 2 places. There are 2 of them in the surround next to the hinge and 1 there at the upper left right next to where we noted the little sliver of steel. We concluded all the little brass nubs are rivet heads. Beside the hinge they anchor the lid opener spring to the surround. In the upper corner the lone rivet locks the catch spring to the surround.

Now I have to guess the form of the catch spring now I know where it is anchored.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2022, 03:26:40 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 12:57:27 AM »
 Rich impressive work...it's challenges like this that make this SO..rewarding...well done...

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 01:01:54 AM »
Rich impressive work...it's challenges like this that make this SO..rewarding...well done...

It’s been a fun project. I really like Fainot’s funky patch boxes. I plan 2 more Fainot builds. Next will be a rifle then another fowler. I want to get his style down and apply what I’ve learned more efficiently.

Then I will be ready for a change!
Andover, Vermont

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 10:09:43 PM »
Ah yes, obvious once someone else has done the study.  Nice work.  I'm looking forward to seeing your guns in progress Rich.

Taylor
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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2017, 12:29:49 AM »
Rich, I applaud your go at a cool old piece !! One of the real treats of this site is the diverse range of work that members do / have done. I just really love to see people do the "different" pieces , many of which are more interesting , in their own way than some of the more well known "classics" . Making the odd ones teaches me twice as much , as I tend to focus more intently , on every possible little detail , more than the ones I`m used to doing . Keep us posted Rich !!  Nate

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2017, 03:35:08 AM »
Nate, all I can figure is Fainot got a bargain on a keg of rivets because just about everything is riveted to everything else in this patchbox.  Last night I cut the patchbox cavity and today installed the opener spring which is riveted to the surround. 







Andover, Vermont

Offline bama

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2017, 05:16:04 AM »
Great job Rich, I see you have your own labor of love 😁 that patch box is quite the undertaking on its own.
Jim Parker

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Offline Curtis

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2017, 05:22:09 AM »
Great work on the box, Rich!  I hope you post some progress pics of that gun along the way, I look forward to seeing more of it!

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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2017, 09:59:44 PM »
Re-did the opener spring and installed the latch spring and latch. Just some small tweaks left.  Lots of lesson learned!  Fainot made these boxes as self-contained units, all springs, catches, latches, hinge riveted to the surround.  Pretty complicated but he stuck with this design.  Hopefully the next one will be easier to make. Next Fainot will be a rifle.






Andover, Vermont

Offline vanu

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2017, 11:38:50 PM »









Some detail photos of the Fainot rifle box...looks like you got it!

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2017, 11:46:16 PM »
Thanks!  That’s the earliest known Fainot with a patchbox.  That hinge is a little different from later ones. It has one “knuckle”.  This is a great rifle and my next project.

Other Fainot boxes ( I think the top 2 are quite a bit later):









imageupload
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 11:53:05 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline vanu

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2017, 12:29:36 AM »
Rich,
Yes, this is quite a nice rifle and early...If you wish, I'd be happy to provide any details of the Fainot rifle that may assist you with your next project.
Bruce

Offline PPatch

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2017, 12:54:52 AM »
Rich - you really went to town with that patchbox! Nicely done, as is the fowler it goes on. I remember handling the gun the evening you were passing it around. It handles well and points well and is surprisingly light. I hope you post pictures of it when you are done.

dave
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2017, 01:02:18 AM »
Rich - you really went to town with that patchbox! Nicely done, as is the fowler it goes on. I remember handling the gun the evening you were passing it around. It handles well and points well and is surprisingly light. I hope you post pictures of it when you are done.

dave
Yes, I'd like to see it as well. You fellows have certainly been making some interesting guns lately....
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Offline Robby

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2017, 04:30:09 PM »
Great post Rich, riveting!! Very nicely done!!!
Robby
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Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2018, 12:55:15 PM »
This has been a most exciting, as well as educational thread!

Rich, your hard work and skill would make Fainot stand proud!  I look forward to seeing your future progress on this fine build!
Joel Hall

Offline smart dog

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Re: Details on a Fainot patchbox
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2018, 03:11:56 PM »
Hi Rich,
Happy New Year and wonderful thread.  That is a complicated patchbox for sure but you are doing a great job reproducing the details.  What a great series of guns you have planned!

dave
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