Carving/modeling

[ltdann]

I've been practicing relief craving for a couple of months now.  I'm good with the designs, got the stabbing in down pat and almost there with the relieving and feathering.   I still need to refine the scraping tools to improve the feathering, almost happy with it.

When I go to do the modeling...it looks like an rabid beaver went after it.  I can literally destroy hours of work in 30 seconds.

I've read the books, studied the vids, got the Pfiel chisels, learned to sharpen them to a terrifying degree, but I can't get a handle on the modeling. 

Any techniques or tricks that anyone can share?

[KC]

When you talk about "modelling", are you talking about carving the detail on the raised portion that you stabbed in and then relieved the background? It sounds like you're taking the same approach I was planning to take before I actually cut on a rifle I'm trying to finish up. I went and bought a large 1" thick plank of hard maple from our local Woodcraft store and was going to rasp a curve into it to mimic the curve of a gun stock. Then I was going to try drawing, stabbing in, and then carving some designs. I would think if you had your chisels and gouges "scary sharp" that you shouldn't be tearing up the wood. Maybe the the gouges need a little reshaping. I've read here a couple times that the bottom angle of the gouges, even Pfiels, is ground a little steep from the factory. I'm sure a few of the experts here will have plenty of sage advice, I look forward to seeing what they say.

[ltdann]

Yes,  I did the same thing you did, piece of hard maple from the local ACE.  It's not so much I'm tearing the wood, although it does happen, it's more I can't get the shaping part down.  It's like I can't get from 2D to 3D.

[n stephenson]

Ltdann , Sharp , sharp , sharp!!!  chisels , and pay attention to your grain direction. If your getting rough cuts ,try going the other direction, you may be cutting the wrong direction. This is why I constantly preach, grain structure. There is quite a bit more to it than most people think. When you start carving ,you really find out what you know about sharp tools and grain structure.  Keep going!!! Like anything else , once you figure it out , it will become easy.  Nate

[deepcreekdale]

Yes,  I did the same thing you did, piece of hard maple from the local ACE.  It's not so much I'm tearing the wood, although it does happen, it's more I can't get the shaping part down.  It's like I can't get from 2D to 3D.

Dan, I understand what your issue is. I had the same problem (still do to a certain degree) The answer is to CAREFULLY study good quality carving, there is a lot right here on this site and pictures of originals. Most of us, when learning carving, make it too complicated. When you look at originals, you will see that they did their carving very quickly, with just a few cuts using very few tools. Try to "reverse engineer" how they did it, but seriously, keep it simple and I bet you will have better results. I hope this helps.

[Mr. Bubbles]

I use scrapers and sanding sticks to sculpt the tops of my raised carving.  Extremely small U-shaped Pfeil gouges (like the # 12 and # 11) to cut in the concave areas.  If you want your raised carving to really stand out, make sure your rounding radius doesn't start too close to the base plane.  If you undercut the carving just a little bit, that will make it more prominent, and give the stain a place to gather to outline it better.  It's a very thin area, and likely will fill up with finish anyway, but not before the stain is in there.

The trick is to make your carving low, like 1/32" or less, and make it LOOK like it's higher than that.  Shallow slices in the wood can be used like shading cuts in engraving.  Just don't over do it, because stain has a tendency to leech and bleed through end grain more than blackening agents do in metal shading cuts.

[Ed Wenger]

The only thing I can say is look at / study modeled carving that appeals to you.  One of the things that’s helped me is to print out examples and have them to look at as you do the modeling.  Another thing that has helped greatly is to photograph antique furniture with appropriate carving, and use them as guides.  Most carving on American work isn’t typically heavily modeled, if that’s a consideration.  European work is another matter.  Most Roccoco design consists of C scrolls, S scrolls, and acanthus leaves, so keep that in mind as well.  Here’s a couple photos of furniture examples I came across just a couple weeks ago.

[ltdann]

Thanks Ed,  there's some good work on that furniture.  I'll add them to my photo collection

Dan

[elkhorne]

ltdann,
Ed is exactly correct! A couple of more sources to study, print and have on hand to watch as you go are (1) examples of Ed's work on his website, (2) watch Mary May' carving tutorials on her website and look at her furniture work, (3) look at Jim Kibler's website for his excellent work and (4) get some KRA DVDs with examples of original rifles from the school you are building your rifle to. Ed is spot on to have printed or video examples to look at as you plan and actually work. Like the old saying goes, "a picture is worth a thousand words!" Good luck and please let us see some pictures of your work. Merry Christmas.
elkhorne

[rich pierce]

Trying to take what we see in full relief furniture carving and translate that to squashed down longrifle carving can be quite challenging. On most originals there’s more suggestion and illusion of real molding than actual 3-D molding of the carving.

[Curtis]

you probably already are, but I didn't see you mention it... are you using some good magnification while attempting to model?  You are dealing withe some real close tolerances and small dimensions here, and seeing your work well is a plus.  You have many good suggestions here - and I would want to second what Nate said about sharp tools and grain direction.  If you go against the grain you can tear things up fast.

Curtis

[ltdann]

opti visor all the way. 

Years ago had RK done and they warned me I'd eventually go far sighted.  They were right, after 25 years.  Not normally an issue because I hunt.  My hunting partners are astounded at what distance's I can see deer and pigs....but put a label in front of me?  My arms just aren't long enough.

I really think it's an issue of technique.  I know what I want it to look like, get 3/4 the way there and then loose it at the finish.  The idea of reverse engineering the photo's is a good one as is have the photo's on the bench while I carve.

I'll keep after it.  If I can't get a handle on it, I'll just stick to the silver wire.

[Ed Wenger]

You'll get it, Dan, just takes time & practice, like anything else.  Another thing that was of tremendous help was taking a carving class at the Gun Building Seminar.  I understand it's not cheap, hard to take time, etc., but absolutely worth it.  I would bet you're at the point where some one on one instruction would put you "over the top", and be of great value.  In the mean time, it really is helpful to have examples in front of you (photos), as you proceed.  Best of luck!


           Ed

[jerrywh]

It would help a lot if we could see an example of the work you are referring to.  About 30 to 50% of the quality in a carving is dependent upon the wood you pick to begin with.  Also don't be too impressed with some of the furniture carving you see. A lot of it them are applied designs that are sawed out and then glued on and sculpted afterward. 
  When it comes to sculpting the term  wood carving may be a little misleading. Shaving would be a better description. Punching ,scraping and sanding are used also. One thing I have never heard a carving teacher teach is how to pick the right wood. The best carvers are masters at that.