sizes of pins and drills ??

[Bigmon]

I suspect that this subject has been talked about before, but I just am not happy with what I been using and want to know what the more experienced builders are doing?

It seems to me that the better looking guns seem to have nice fine pins, not big sloppy holes.

I been using #49 bit and 4d finish nails for all my barrel, RR pipe and trigger gd pinning.
Works pretty well with a few little problems.
1. Cant get that size bit long enough to drill thru everything first time without putting in a hand drill.
2. After all the ins and outs of the pins during a build the holes get worn and lose and can get ugly by the the time its finished.

And now three, no more USA made unplated nails are around and the foreign made one are just a few thousands less but even looser when done.

So yesterday I found a 1/16" bit that is plenty long, in fact I'll have to shorten it or it will bend too much.
Plus that is a lot smaller so I'm gonna have to find a smaller pin source.  Smaller bails are shorter and will not be long enough.

So before I try re-inventing wheel, what are you guys using and I'd welcome any opinions??
Thanks to all

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I bought a round tube full of 1/16" welding rod...a lifetime supply.  It is plenty stiff enough and is the smallest diameter steel pins I would suggest using.  I ground my drift punch a few thou under 1/16" so that it does not enlarge the holes, and after twenty years of removing and replacing them for cleaning and maintenance, they are still lots tight enough.  If I find they want to fall out, I scrub some bees wax on them prior to seating, and that keeps them in place.

[Mark Elliott]

I use 1/16" and 5/64" music wire for pins.   The same size drill bits work just fine.   I can cut them with a small bolt cutter and then grind the ends (knock off the sharp edges)  on my belt sander. 

[Dennis Glazener]

I use music wire like Mark. Its hard and doesn't bend easily. The only difference is that after I cut them I put them in my hand drill and while spinning them in the drill I grind a blunt point on each end. Then I grind a flat (90 degrees to the pin) and leave just a little bevel on the end so it is less likely to chip out wood when you drive them in/out of the cross pin holes.

I also cut the pins so they are a little beneath the surface when in place. Then I fill the holes with beeswax to hide and seal the pins against moisture.
Dennis

[Bob Roller]

I suspect that this subject has been talked about before, but I just am not happy with what I been using and want to know what the more experienced builders are doing?

It seems to me that the better looking guns seem to have nice fine pins, not big sloppy holes.

I been using #49 bit and 4d finish nails for all my barrel, RR pipe and trigger gd pinning.
Works pretty well with a few little problems.
1. Cant get that size bit long enough to drill thru everything first time without putting in a hand drill.
2. After all the ins and outs of the pins during a build the holes get worn and lose and can get ugly by the the time its finished.

And now three, no more USA made unplated nails are around and the foreign made one are just a few thousands less but even looser when done.

So yesterday I found a 1/16" bit that is plenty long, in fact I'll have to shorten it or it will bend too much.
Plus that is a lot smaller so I'm gonna have to find a smaller pin source.  Smaller bails are shorter and will not be long enough.

So before I try re-inventing wheel, what are you guys using and I'd welcome any opinions??
Thanks to all

There is little chance the 1/16" bits will drill a true dimension.Get a piece of #52 drill rod and cut it to length needed
andthen round the ends by
 putting it in a drill chuck and rolling a fine cut file over the pin while it's spinning.
Bob Roller

[Steve-In]

I too use the music wire, it is available in my area at hobby stores (like where they sell RC Planes and such).  I bend a couple into a L shape and use them during the build.  Replace them with pins like Dennis and Mark use at finish.  Get a stub length drill to start the holes and it will eliminate 99% of your lead off.

[Jerry V Lape]

Original question talked about having drill bit long enough to drill all the way through.  Drilling all the way through is not a good practice in my experience.  Halfway from each side using one of the drill guides works so much more accurately for me. 

[flehto]

I too use music wire from Truvalue hardware stores. I take it that the temporary "L" shaped pins are bent w/ the heat from a torch.....otherwise music wire doesn't readily bend.

A 1/16 drill is used and if a new or properly sharpened drill is used, the fit of the hole/pin is a slight press fit. Later on, the fit is too tight after the finish has been  applied and I use a 1/16" drill held in a hand vise to "ream" the hole. 

I also drill straight through the wood and lug and have no problems w/ drill length.

Sometimes hardware store 1/16 drills have bent shanks and cause a lot of drill runout when spinning.

I use the full length when drilling and one can better see any misalignment of the drill w/ the dimple in the wood. A 1/16 drill used full length will move over if not exactly over the dimple and once a depth of 1/16" is cut, it's easy to align the drill  for zero runout.

Some use a center drill which should be used when the workpiece is clamped like in a mill or lathe.

Drilling the holes in a stock can be a trying experience and  judging from the amount of posts about drilling, many have trouble doing so.

Shown is my setup for drilling the bbl lug holes in one setup and the RR pipes in another setup. .....Fred


multiple photo upload

[Dennis Glazener]

I agree, I bore through the wood on one side then "dimple" the tenon, remove the barrel and drill through the tenon on the drill press. Then without replacing the barrel I put the drill back in the hole (through one side of the wood) and drill through the other side. Then replace barrel/tenon and run the drill through wood and tenon to make sure they properly align.
Dennis

Original question talked about having drill bit long enough to drill all the way through.  Drilling all the way through is not a good practice in my experience.  Halfway from each side using one of the drill guides works so much more accurately for me.

[Bigmon]

Music wire?  1/16" dia??  and use a 1/16" bit ?
And it isn't lose?
OK, next time I see a True Value I'm getting some.
Or the welding rods, which ever I see first.

I have seen allot of guitar and other stringed instrument strings, but none near 1/16"dia.
Could it be called music wire but actually be for something else?

[mountainman70]

Like Dennis just said, when finished thru drilling I usually drill the under tenon the next number size up so it is easier to go thru,but not too loose.Dave

[mountainman70]

It is used for piano strings. When you use 1/16 size, when holes wear you can  go to next size and it wont look like the devil.
I was taught to use smallest pin,screw, that will do the job. If I boo-boo,which I do somewhat frequently, tis easier to go next size up, than fill a hole and re drill. Especially bad on lockplated !!!

[Daryl]

The beeswax works well for snugging up slightly loose pins, but it does not happen often.  In really dry weather like we have now,

a couple barrel keys on the Verner get a bit loose, but that does not seem to hinder shooting.  They still hold that 48" barrel in place.

[okawbow]

Is a 1/16" pin normal for a longrifle?
The few originals I've seen all had larger pins. Some seemed to be 1/8".

I use 3/32" pins. I've tried 1/16" and didn't like the tiny drill bits. The 1/16" hole in the stock just doesn't look right to me.

[smallpatch]

As far as pin stock, I too use 1/16" pin stock, or music wire, and a 1/16" drill bit.

I guess I follow the Mike Brooks method to drill.  Mark em on the side of stock, level and square a hand drill, and drill,them suckers.  Easy-peasy.  If it's done when the stock is still in the square, tear-out doesn't exist.

[Majorjoel]

I also buy those extra long 1\16" drill bits at my local Ace Hardware.  From memory I think they are about 10 inches long.   The extra length of the shafts make darn nice barrel pins.   

[Curtis]

I typically use 1/16" drill rod for my pins.   I file a wedge point on a 3" piece of the drill rod and run it through the already drilled but slightly undersized holes, which makes the holes perfectly sized for the pins made from the same material.

Curtis

[conquerordie]

I do like Majorjoel, 1/16" bits are cheap. I drill the holes and Use the drill shank as my pin.
Greg

[Steve-In]

I have seen allot of guitar and other stringed instrument strings, but none near 1/16"dia.
Could it be called music wire but actually be for something else?

If they called it barrel pins we would probably have to fill out paper work. 
At the hobby store it is used for wheel struts, control rods etc.
Don't try to cut it with a good set of side cutters.  I grind mine.  It is some tough stuff. 
I buy my drills at machine tool supply stores they usually beat the Hardware Store drills by a mile. 

[B.Habermehl]

I've always used music wire. I was a RC model builder once upon a time. I use 5/64 dia. I also found insulation support wire form the big box lumber store works fine and is close to the same dia. It's also spring tempered, just a bit softer than music wire so it can be cut with large side cutters. I bought one package, it will probably last me for the rest of my days. BJH

[Hemo]

I have a bunch of yard marker flags (little plastic square flags on wires) I got from the local hardware store. I found these wires were exactly 1/16" diameter, were very tough and springy, and may actually be made out of "music wire", though I suspect they are cheaper.  I use these regularly, mostly for ramrod pipes and triggerguard pins. I have usually gone up to 3/32" for barrel pins, for a little more strength, but 1/16" would probably work fine for barrel pins.

Gregg

[ltdann]

I have a bunch of yard marker flags (little plastic square flags on wires) I got from the local hardware store. I found these wires were exactly 1/16" diameter, were very tough and springy, and may actually be made out of "music wire", though I suspect they are cheaper.  I use these regularly, mostly for ramrod pipes and triggerguard pins. I have usually gone up to 3/32" for barrel pins, for a little more strength, but 1/16" would probably work fine for barrel pins.

Gregg

Whew, I thought I was the only one.  Those things are tough!

[Mike Brooks]

Like Taylor I bought a tube of 1/16" welding rod a couple decades ago, still using it. Soft mild steel, easy to work with. Mine never loosen up as I don't ever take them out to clean,.....that's   a Canadian thing...

[TommyG]

I,m with Mike & Taylor - 1/16" weld rod, copper coated.  Never have to worry about them rusting, they seem to slide into position fairly easily but still snug. 

[Bigmon]

Wow!!
So much great info.  So many methods and choices, so few projects.
Can't wait.
As usual, got my question answered pretty well.
Merry Christmas to ALL!