Author Topic: Cap or Flint?  (Read 10192 times)

Offline little joe

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2018, 03:06:18 AM »
I,m a die hearted flint shooter and think they are the ultimate challenge. Some shooters cannot over come some of the flinters challenge . To be open minded I converted a 40 cal flinter with a Rice bbl. to cap lock and have found no extra X or 10s on my target so far however am still working on the targets. Will get back to the range when the crappy weather gives up. One better than the other, don,t think so. Its a test of my skills and practice.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2018, 04:36:15 AM »
I do shoot a little better with a cap gun, than with any of my flinters.  That amounts to between 1 to 4 more target hits in a30 round trail. Depends on the day, of course.   As to X's, we have no paper X targets on the trail.  Perhaps we should, but we actually prefer to shoot at reactive targets.  I guess you could say that the X's we shoot at, are playing cards on edge and the string cuts.
We also have a briquet target,w here the briquet must totally disappear.  Now that they are all gone and we havn't hung any new ones, we sometimes just shoot at the strings hanging down.  At 20yards, the strings are a hard target.  Also, because the strings and playing cards are fairly close, a cap gun is not really an advantage, seems to me.
Daryl

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Offline elk killer

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2018, 05:07:24 AM »
Ok, so your out in bear country, your caps get wet or lost or stolen, what would the reliability  be then ? Nuthing more than a poor club at best..

with a flintlock, even if your flint gets wet lost or stolen,you can fairly easily find a
rock that works, even if the flint was soaked in water for 40 yrs it still works,

we all have a opinion , that's what makes the planet somewhat fun to be on 😆
only flintlocks remain interesting..

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2018, 05:09:58 AM »
I hunt with a flintlock. I've shot a bear every year for the last 8 years, and before that most years. That's from the ground.  I am absolutely certain in the firing of my weapon because I check and make sure that all is well before I set out. Flint tight in the jaws, and sharp, vent open etc etc. In poor weather, I use a thin application of lube around the pan, as well as a cow's knee cover.
Locks are Chamber's and they have never let me down.  This year I shot my bear [  well over 350 lbs ]   from approx 15 feet.
Yes, I've had a flash in the pan before , but that was during target matches, with multiple shots, and entirely my fault for not tending to things ...but hunting...that first shot...it's as certain as taxes  :)

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2018, 05:12:19 AM »
There are some flintlocks that could be easier to weather proof, Chambers round face english for one. With the proper pan sealer applied in the right places I have gone through some pretty intense rains and the lock still fired as it should. I hunt bears also with my flinter( 4 with a 58 and 3 with a 62) and some (three of those shots were 8 yds. or less and one at 8-10 feet and still did not feel as though I was at a disadvantage. Being familiar with what ever you shoot and shot placement is more critical that what ignition you choose.

Lead ball 54

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2018, 07:07:25 AM »
Sorry to cause such a what ever that was I just want to stuff some black and ball down a barrel and shoot and I wanted to know about flint locks what would be a good book to read or maybe someone's tutorial off this sight kind of a beginners guide to flint locks thanks for all your advise and opinions I will get a flint round baller and all so a cap lock

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2018, 07:22:44 AM »
Eric Bye I think is the name has a book out about the care and feeding of flintlocks. Might be good food for thought.

Black Hand

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2018, 07:27:04 AM »
Sorry to cause such a what ever that was I just want to stuff some black and ball down a barrel and shoot and I wanted to know about flint locks what would be a good book to read or maybe someone's tutorial off this sight kind of a beginners guide to flint locks thanks for all your advise and opinions I will get a flint round baller and all so a cap lock
The best thing you could do is find someone with a flintlock that will teach you. Reading a book is great, but the hands-on is better. Some people shoot flintlocks and then realize they don't like them, but I suspect these are the same people who have low-cost guns.

CTShooter

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2018, 08:26:05 AM »
I have cap locks because that's what I started with, I really like flint, don't know why, anyone in/near NW CT want to teach me about them, I'll bring powder

Offline Candle Snuffer

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2018, 03:22:56 PM »
I like 'em both and shoot 'em both... If you want quality in either flint or percussion then you have to be willing to pay the price for the quality parts, then you have to be willing to practice... It really is that simple.   ;)
Snuffer
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2018, 04:42:23 PM »
Ok, so your out in bear country, your caps get wet or lost or stolen, what would the reliability  be then ? Nuthing more than a poor club at best..

with a flintlock, even if your flint gets wet lost or stolen,you can fairly easily find a
rock that works, even if the flint was soaked in water for 40 yrs it still works,

we all have a opinion , that's what makes the planet somewhat fun to be on 😆
The only flint I have ever found on the ground was the one that just fell out of my lock.....
 
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2018, 06:00:35 PM »
Ok, so your out in bear country, your caps get wet or lost or stolen, what would the reliability  be then ? Nuthing more than a poor club at best..

with a flintlock, even if your flint gets wet lost or stolen,you can fairly easily find a
rock that works, even if the flint was soaked in water for 40 yrs it still works,

we all have a opinion , that's what makes the planet somewhat fun to be on 😆
The only flint I have ever found on the ground was the one that just fell out of my lock.....

LOL Mike!
Used to find Neolithic flints back home.  used plenty of the shards.

Elk killer,
I've found that picking up the right rock takes an awful lot of doing.  In fact I wouldn't even try anymore.  Yes, some will work but most won't. And besides, whoever stole Old Mountainman's caps, might also nick your flintlock and leave you 'clubless".
All the best,
R

Black Hand

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2018, 06:04:24 PM »
I've read where some people have used broken arrowheads with success.

somehippy

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2018, 06:13:14 PM »
What I like about flintlocks is the fact that if you got powder you can shoot, no caps for a capper=no shooting always some used rock in the pouch that can be sharpened to get a couple more shots off.  Knapping a flint from time to time is less fidgety than fumbling with a cap every shot.  As mentioned by others all firearms even unmentionables can fail with operator error.   As others said as well, buy the best you can, even if it means saving a while, it'll be worth it.  There's also nice guns going for not alot of money all the time on the classifieds here cap and flint.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2018, 06:15:27 PM »
The difference in us is I have no bias against flintlocks.
And I have none against caplocks.
I took exception to your blanket statement...

All the rest isn't evidence to support your claim that caplocks are more reliable - it is anecdotal and contains nothing that could be used to assess reliability. You were better off sticking with your claim of 250+ shots without a misfire...

Let's backtrack a bit. I read you post and said "wrong in so many ways". I was talking about everything you said. I picked the part about me personally to show you were wrong. You made it sound like I was scared. I did my best to explain I wasn't. I didn't have time to go over everything you said. I had stuff to do. I'm just getting back now.

So, our disagreement is which ignition system is more reliable. This can be hard to prove, but we can look at history. The military has always used what they thought was the most reliable, accurate, guns. They used the caplock after it came out. Even though they had to fiddle with caps they still chose the musket cap guns. They never went back to the flintlock.

I don't find keeping the caps dry much of a chore. I did find keeping the powder dry in the pan. Especially, 4F that seemed to such moisture from the air so easily. I'm not sure how you guys avoid that? I was constantly changing the pan powder, because it was turning into sludge so fast. I used a cows knee, but it didn't prevent the powder from getting wet. I was doing something wrong, but I never figured out what.

Plus, as I said. My era is the fur trade/mountain man. Even though the Hawken wasn't widely used, it was used and that's my choice. The Hawken of those times was a caplock. So, that's what I use. Although the Lyman Deerstalker i'm using now can hardly be called a Hawken. It's a compromise I had to make because of some medical problems.

 So, that's it. To the OP. Both ignition systems work if you do all you should do and do it every time. Dry and clean is always your goal. Good caps and flints are mandatory. Have fun.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2018, 06:24:48 PM »
What I like about flintlocks is the fact that if you got powder you can shoot, no caps for a capper=no shooting always some used rock in the pouch that can be sharpened to get a couple more shots off.  Knapping a flint from time to time is less fidgety than fumbling with a cap every shot.  As mentioned by others all firearms even unmentionables can fail with operator error.   As others said as well, buy the best you can, even if it means saving a while, it'll be worth it.  There's also nice guns going for not alot of money all the time on the classifieds here cap and flint.

I agree if using #11 caps. I hate those little things. That's why I use musket caps. They handle easily and no cappper is needed. I just put some in my pocket and are easy to grab and load. I can do it in the dark with no problem. 7 bucks for 100. No reason to not have a good supply.

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2018, 06:50:00 PM »
I want to make a confession and maybe it will help you understand. I actually love flintlocks. Another one is in my plans. I love the history of them, the procedure of using one, and the actual shooting one.

I haven't had a good one yet. Lyman, TC, and a Pedersoli. In my old age I can't handle a long barrel Hawken anymore. I'm thinking a long rifle with a swamped barrel in a .50 won't be too bad on my back. Maybe not too long like you guys use. Something like 38" or so? It will have to have a good lock.

 The bear and elk hunting are getting difficult, so it will be a target/deer gun. That's why it has to be a .50. A .45 PRB isn't heavy enough for big game in Colorado.

So, don't give up on me. It will take a while for me to save up the money for a nice long rifle, but i'll get there.

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2018, 07:00:39 PM »
Pete,

Look at short English/German style rifles if you are thinking flint some time. They were usually larger calibre, .54 to .70 .
Also with  a good lock, you can prime with 2F and it still goes fast
I use nothing else in my .58.

Good luck!
R

Offline iloco

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2018, 07:01:25 PM »
I have both caplock and flintlock.  I like one as good as the other.  Both had have their place in history and served their purpose well.  I say use the one you like and enjoy what suits you best.  No one mentions the Bow and how it served the natives well.
 No use to keep on beating an already dead horse.
iloco

Black Hand

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2018, 07:07:27 PM »
I don't find keeping the caps dry much of a chore. I did find keeping the powder dry in the pan. Especially, 4F that seemed to such moisture from the air so easily. I'm not sure how you guys avoid that? I was constantly changing the pan powder, because it was turning into sludge so fast. I used a cows knee, but it didn't prevent the powder from getting wet. I was doing something wrong, but I never figured out what.
I had a similar problem - figured out that moisture was getting into the barrel channel, wicking up behind the lock and into the prime. It happened twice, I figured out what was happening and it never happened again once I filled the barrel channel with wax. I also use 3Fg which appears to be less prone to absorbing moisture and check the prime in very wet conditions every 30 minutes or so.

Plus, as I said. My era is the fur trade/mountain man. Even though the Hawken wasn't widely used, it was used and that's my choice. The Hawken of those times was a caplock. So, that's what I use.
By the time the Hawken rifle became commonly available, we were well into the Fur Trade/Mountain man period. That said, flintlock guns were far more common during the period and many/most were smoothbores. Many of the rifles that were present appear to have been brought over from the East and were also flintlocks.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 07:08:52 PM by Black Hand »

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2018, 07:18:13 PM »
BH.......I agree that more flintlocks were used in the fur trade era than Hawkens. They both fit, so I won't really need to make any changes other than the gun itself.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2018, 10:40:56 PM »
Since I am into the colonial to 1812 era, I can't comment on anything related to the mountain man days.  I can comment on flintlocks vs caplocks.  I used to hunt with a .32 percussion; later I started using a flintlock SMR in .36.  My best groups with each were the same, with maybe the nod going to the flint .36.  I have a custom built, heavy barrel .45 caplock.  I only used this rifle for targets and postal matches; the short, heavy tube is great for offhand. 

I don't like to hunt in the rain and avoid it whenever possible.  But deer season has seen me in the bush quite a few times in everything from light mists to downpours.  Both caplocks and flintlocks have accompanied me during these excursions; but only flintlocks the past decade or two.  Never have I had a problem with either.  4F is my choice of prime; and the only time the pan has shown a soupy mess was AFTER the gun had already been fired.  Never has the 4F in the pan gotten wet in the loaded, unfired gun.  That's another reason I prefer flintlocks for hunting.  That's just my experience; other's may differ and that's alright.
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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2018, 10:45:16 PM »
Since I am into the colonial to 1812 era, I can't comment on anything related to the mountain man days.  I can comment on flintlocks vs caplocks.  I used to hunt with a .32 percussion; later I started using a flintlock SMR in .36.  My best groups with each were the same, with maybe the nod going to the flint .36.  I have a custom built, heavy barrel .45 caplock.  I only used this rifle for targets and postal matches; the short, heavy tube is great for offhand. 

I don't like to hunt in the rain and avoid it whenever possible.  But deer season has seen me in the bush quite a few times in everything from light mists to downpours.  Both caplocks and flintlocks have accompanied me during these excursions; but only flintlocks the past decade or two.  Never have I had a problem with either.  4F is my choice of prime; and the only time the pan has shown a soupy mess was AFTER the gun had already been fired.  Never has the 4F in the pan gotten wet in the loaded, unfired gun.  That's another reason I prefer flintlocks for hunting.  That's just my experience; other's may differ and that's alright.

What brand of 4F do you like the best?

Offline hanshi

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2018, 11:09:59 PM »
OldMtnMan, I have 4F in both Dupont (unopened can) and Goex.  I have been using the Goex 4F.
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Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Cap or Flint?
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2018, 12:01:48 AM »
I've tried Graf's 4f and wasn't too impressed. It sucked up moisture like a sponge.

I'll give Goex or Swiss a try next.