Cnc machining flintlock barrel and lock

[Mark15373]

Hi all, came across some pieces of 1045 hot rolled steel scrap from my job and have a couple cnc machines there the barrel is easy but does anyone know where you can find mastercam files or compatable files to plug into the computer to machine the lock?

[Pennsylvania Dutchman]

How do you intend to bore and rifle the barrel? I can see using the CNC to profile the outside.
Mark

[Darkhorse]

Well, you could always beg Jim Kibler to let you have his. LOL!   Seriously he's about the only one I know of who's put in the time, and a lot is required, to model all the parts to make a longrifle kit.
I had 34 1/2 years as a toolmaker, the last 10 a Master toolmaker with the Air Force. I built the fixtures and proved out the NC programs and wrote programs using MDI among other things. I know what it takes to build these data files. You are not the first person to ask this question apparently thinking all you need to do is profile the outside and your done. Always they seem to ignore things like the tumbler, sear, springs, and all the other little parts required to build a complete, shooting rifle.
Nobody seems to realize it takes fixtures to hold these parts so the machine tool can actually cut these out of a forging or billet. These fixtures also must be compatible with the data files for the part itself. Meaning the fixtures must be exactly like the ones designed for the original parts.
Because of the development costs incurred Mr. Kibler doesn't want to offer a Lefthand gun. As a lefthander that aggravates me but if it was me I probably wouldn't offer one either. The time and costs to build these data files and tooling are just too expensive.
It is not easy to do this even if it seems so to the uninitiated.

[ddoyle]

Here is the good news. There is a lifetime of avenues to explore to satisfy your desire to build rifle/parts. THe even better news is that every avenue is 100x easier- cheaper and more satsifying then using automated high speed spindles. 

[smart dog]

Hi,
I know of no one CNC machining locks.  There is unlikely anyone who can share code for you to program a machine to cut out a lock and if they did, I doubt they would give it away for free since it would take them a lot of effort to program it.  I do know of one lock maker who looked at the option of CNC machining locks versus casting the parts and he determined the cost of CNC machining the parts would make them retail at a price out of reach for most makers.

dave

[Clark Badgett]

Turn the CNC off after you have spent the day making a living from it, and pick up the file, gouge and chisel and enjoy the quiet they can bring after a day of listing to industrial machinery running. Buy a barrel from appropriate steel and a lock that is already offerd.

[westbj2]

The detail and precision of this lock is typical of high quality flint and percussion locks. Cost of CNC tooling and fixtures needed to get to the point of final finishing/detailing by hand is prohibitive. 
Jim

[Mike Brooks]

The lock is real easy just like the barrel. Grab a hacksaw and a file and have at it.

[sqrldog]

Rod Gates a gun building friend from Crosstimbers MO has already built percussion locks for a double Bentley shotgun using cnc equipment.  He a whiz kid machinist are well on their way to developing programming to build matching left and right late English locks. He of course had to do some finish work, bend and heat treat springs etc. Tim

[deepcreekdale]

Just watch the "Gunsmith of Williamsburg" with Wallace Gusler to see how to do it right.

[Bob Roller]

Hi,
I know of no one CNC machining locks.  There is unlikely anyone who can share code for you to program a machine to cut out a lock and if they did, I doubt they would give it away for free since it would take them a lot of effort to program it.  I do know of one lock maker who looked at the option of CNC machining locks versus casting the parts and he determined the cost of CNC machining the parts would make them retail at a price out of reach for most makers.

dave

Right on!I well remember the time when the lock HAD to be the cheapest thing about the
gun and jumped at the opportunity offered by the SBD (Schuetzen Bund Deutschland)
in 1978.
REALLY high quality moulds can be made for all lock parts but are cost prohibitive and
the highest quality moulds I ever saw were those made for the Chet Shoults lock and
I recall they cost over $5000 in the mid 1950's. I have mentioned in other posts about
the very high quality moulds made for a Brazier "4 pin" lock by a Swiss mould maker
that Lynton McKenzie knew.Again,parts for a VERY specialized lock that few knew any
thing about that were expensive.
If someone can come up with a traditional CNC made lock that is good or better quality
then I hope to see it and congratulate the ones responsible for it.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

The detail and precision of this lock is typical of high quality flint and percussion locks. Cost of CNC tooling and fixtures needed to get to the point of final finishing/detailing by hand is prohibitive. 
Jim

To quote the late John Wayne,"That's for sure,that's for darn sure"The final/fine detailing
is bench work. I have 4 of these to make including a Rigby style for a local friend and
collector.Thanks Jim for showing this fine lock.

Bob Roller

[Greg Pennell]

While not flintlock or long rifle, Steve Earle of MA has been CNC machining locks for his reproduction Frank Wesson long range rifle actions for a number of years. These things are built like the proverbial Swiss watch, and when manipulating the action you’d swear the moving parts ride on tiny ball bearings. Even with the precision of CNC, there’s still a lot of hand work involved. Definitely a nice bit of kit, and definitely expensive. In my misspent youth, I stocked around 10 or so of these, and have handled/shot several more.

http://www.steveearleproducts.com/longrange.html

Greg

[SingleMalt]

If you can wait, Chris Laubach (a member here), is close to starting production of his own locks with CNC machined tumblers.  The rest of the internals will be castings.  It took him quite some time to create the files for the lock parts.  I'd guess he'd be able to give you some pointers and tips.

[David R. Pennington]

Here is a quote from Brad Fountain taken from an article on him in Nov/Dec. Muzzleloader Magazine,"..there's a lot you can do with machine tools, and the result will be clean and perfect, but it won't have any soul. , ... that is something that only comes from a man working with his hands."

[T*O*F]

CNC machining is old hat.  Get someone to print the parts for you on a 3D printer.
I was watching a program the other day concerning the future of our military's readiness.  Instead of waiting for parts to come from a supply depot, units will soon have the capability to print replacement parts in the field.

[Scota4570]

I have the idea in the back of my head that parts cold be 3D scanned and the result translated into useable code for a CNC center.  Maybe that could be done by stylus mapping or laser surface mapping.  So, make or have one part, scan it, duplicate it.  Hopefully I will have the time and means to learn more about it someday. 

Today there are scanning devices that digitally map the surface of bullets and fired cartridge cases.  They are being marketed to forensic firearms examiners, like me.  The idea is to have a digital record of the microscopic details that can be easily traded among examiners.  They are semi- experimental and wildly expensive.  I do think that something like this will make it possible to scan and duplicate a part.....someday. 

This is outside of the scope of this forum's mission though. 

[rich pierce]

To me it’s like desiring to make a flint arrowhead by CNC or 3-D printing.  It just does not excite me much.  It’s great to have quality parts available at affordable prices but I’m goin* to be more excited over someone hand forging a flintlock over CNC-ing it.

[smallpatch]

Don't know if you guys have noticed or not, but the OP hasn't been back since the original post.

[Elnathan]

Only been a day or so.

I was hoping that he didn't get scared off.

[smart dog]

CNC machining is old hat.  Get someone to print the parts for you on a 3D printer.
I was watching a program the other day concerning the future of our military's readiness.  Instead of waiting for parts to come from a supply depot, units will soon have the capability to print replacement parts in the field.

Hi Dave,
I believe Chris Laubach has already used 3-D printing to create his lock prototypes from original locks.  He showed me some at Dixon's and they were impressive.  However, he priced out the whole process and determined that the best and most cost effective strategy was to use the 3-D printers to make prototypes, make hard molds of the parts and cast them.  Then use CNC machines to make some parts and clean up castings. That was the strategy that had a chance to keep retail prices within an affordable range.  However, the quality would be better than anything we have available today other than from custom makers like Bob Roller.

dave   

[Bob Roller]

CNC machining is old hat.  Get someone to print the parts for you on a 3D printer.
I was watching a program the other day concerning the future of our military's readiness.  Instead of waiting for parts to come from a supply depot, units will soon have the capability to print replacement parts in the field.

Hi Dave,
I believe Chris Laubach has already used 3-D printing to create his lock prototypes from original locks.  He showed me some at Dixon's and they were impressive.  However, he priced out the whole process and determined that the best and most cost effective strategy was to use the 3-D printers to make prototypes, make hard molds of the parts and cast them.  Then use CNC machines to make some parts and clean up castings. That was the strategy that had a chance to keep retail prices within an affordable range.  However, the quality would be better than anything we have available today other than from custom makers like Bob Roller.

dave

I hope someone can add to the good locks now made for the gun makers.
On 27 March I will be 82 and don't have the energy I once had and this
last episode of bronchial infection didn't help one bit either. Also my wife
of nearly 49 years will probably need radiation follow up for a while and
no longer drives so it's up to me to get her to treatment which,thank God is
not far away. Time lost from the shop but no alternatives available.

Bob Roller

[SingleMalt]

CNC machining is old hat.  Get someone to print the parts for you on a 3D printer.
I was watching a program the other day concerning the future of our military's readiness.  Instead of waiting for parts to come from a supply depot, units will soon have the capability to print replacement parts in the field.

Hi Dave,
I believe Chris Laubach has already used 3-D printing to create his lock prototypes from original locks.  He showed me some at Dixon's and they were impressive.  However, he priced out the whole process and determined that the best and most cost effective strategy was to use the 3-D printers to make prototypes, make hard molds of the parts and cast them.  Then use CNC machines to make some parts and clean up castings. That was the strategy that had a chance to keep retail prices within an affordable range.  However, the quality would be better than anything we have available today other than from custom makers like Bob Roller.

dave

You're exactly right, Dave.  First, the original was scanned into a 3-D printer and the parts made of plastic to test fit and function.  After adjustments were made, masters were made for making molds at 2.5% larger to allow for shrinkage.  Here's a link to the Facebook page showing prototypes and the CNC machined tumblers.

https://www.facebook.com/Firelocks-477867219240191/

[Jim Chambers]

Just to let you guys know, Siler locks are not stuck back in the "stone age" of investment casting.  We are embracing more modern techniques as well.  We are already set up to drop a cast plate into a CNA machine, have it take a skimming cut off the inside surface and then drill, ream and tap all holes in the plate, all precisely in the same place.  We are already capable of making  a CNC machined finished bridle that will exactly match the holes in the plate.  And, we are on the verge of making finished tumblers out of pre-hardened steel. 
All this takes a lot of time and money, but we are always looking for ways to make a better product while keeping the prices as low as possible.
Jim Chambers

[smart dog]

Hi Jim,
That must be a costly investment but I have no doubts that your quality will set the bar of standards as your locks do now.

dave