New build First time this way FINISH pictures added

[Wyoduster]

This is the first time I have ever tried to build a gun from a chunk of wood. My Son gave this to me, he brought it home from Italy a few years back. so far so good. This is going to be a Hawken style full stock gun.Thats a 58 cal. Colerain Swamped Barrel I have inletted.. That was a chore...
 First; got a problem everyones out of stock of 7/16" ram rod drill bits. what do I do now?

[Chowmi]

Get the butt plate, lock, triggers, trigger guard in while you wait for a rr drill?

I'm so slow that I imagine that the rr drills would be available by the time I finished all that.  If you are quicker, then maybe the next suggestion:


Or, if you are capable, make your own by brazing the appropriate drill bit to a steel round stock. 

Just a few suggestions.

Norm

[Clark Badgett]

I think you are going to need a longer tang if you want it to be a Hawken style.

They have been out of those 7/16" long drills for a while now.

[Pukka Bundook]

I'd go 3/8" drill, then taper the ramrod to 7/16" at muzzle end.

Richard.

[Wyoduster]

I just bought a 7/16" bit from a member. so life is good again. 
But The tapered rod would have been the way to go.

I do know the tang is a little short for a Hawken But I guess I'm not being totally a purest on this build. I'll be happy if it looks alright in the end.. I'll continue posting pictures.

[little joe]

 Congratulations  Wyoduster. The only way you will learn to be a gun stocker is to dive in and go for it.When you do kits you learn how things are put together and wood finishing but that does not  make you a gun stocker, only what you are doing will. There are, as I see 3 types here, kit assemblers, gun stockers, (most of us) and gun builders (lock stock and barrel) There are most likely several dozens true makers in the country, such as House bros. Andy Thomas at Martins Station comes in very close here also.

[Tim Crosby]

 Drills are not that hard to make, I have these in 1/4, 5/15 & this 3/8ths. Make guides, clamp it good, drill slow, a little at a time, maybe 1/2" and clean out the chips after each run. I have never had one drill out. The working area is about 1 1/2".
 Also I would agree with Pukka about size.

  Tim C.

[Pukka Bundook]

Tim,

I've only made mine by welding a regular drill bit on a rod.  This looks a lot easier. 
Do you harden the tip?

Wyo,
Only trouble with a 7/16" hole full length, is it makes setting the side -nails for the lock a bit more critical, and will  require a bit more wood at the breech..

Good luck on your build!  Nice work up to now! :-)

[flinchrocket]

You have the makings for a good plain Potsdam rifle ( northern Germany). If you try to make a Hawken it will never be right no matter how good a job you do. Don't get me wrong, I like fantasy rifles as much as anyone, but I think in the long run you won't like it even if you do a really nice job. So far you are doing alright it looks like.

[Wyoduster]

You have the makings for a good plain Potsdam rifle ( northern Germany). If you try to make a Hawken it will never be right no matter how good a job you do. Don't get me wrong, I like fantasy rifles as much as anyone, but I think in the long run you won't like it even if you do a really nice job. So far you are doing alright it looks like.

Boring on.... Got the lock inletted and more wood removed.. making slow progress.

A Potsdam... yep had one years ago.. Not that I don't appreciate your knowledge and wisdom but I must move the direction I'm heading even if I crash at the finish line. I have always said you must make mistakes to learn. I have a vision. Pictures to follow.

[Wyoduster]

Starting to look more like a gun than a club... tomorrow I'll round the barrel part of the stock more and work on the trigger.   

[Clark Badgett]

Wyo, Looking good so far. I think you are going to understand the tang issue when you go to inlet the trigger plate, if you use the Hawken triggers that is. 

[Black Hand]

I have always said you must make mistakes to learn.

In some cases, learning from the mistakes of others isn't a bad thing...

[Wyoduster]

Wyo, Looking good so far. I think you are going to understand the tang issue when you go to inlet the trigger plate, if you use the Hawken triggers that is. 

 Yes I understand what you mean.. never thought about it. hmmm.. I do have two other triggers I could use..  I'll look the situation over in the daylight. Live and learn.. I'm just glad I have all the expertise from this forum guiding me.   I do like to know what I'm doing wrong.. because there will be a next time.
I plan on having a room just to work on Muzzleloaders at our next house.. which is going to be in a month and a half. Moving to Potter County, Pa.

[flinchrocket]

You may be able to fashion an extension onto your tang that would be presentable. Otherwise, you won't be able to use a normal Hawken triggerguard that is screwed to the trigger plate. Jerry

[Clark Badgett]

Ain't nothing wrong with putting your own spin on what you think a prototype/pre J&S Hawken might have looked like. Put Sam Hawken's Xenia Ohio guns and Harper's Ferry influences into the build, maybe some Maryland flavorings as well. Would have to be flint though. Others have done so and the end results were pretty nice. Might even develope your own "school" in the process, like the House brothers did.

[flinchrocket]

Check out the Hawken rifles on the Cody Firearms museum online collection, I bet you will find something that will work for you.

[David Rase]

Greg,
Don't know why you want a 7/16" ramrod.  I would go with 3/8".  The trouble with the 7/16" ramrod  hole is that you end up with such a FAT looking forestock.  The better way, just my opinion, is to drill the hole 3/8" and if you want a bigger ramrod, taper it rom 1/2" at the muzzle to 3/8" at the entrypipe.  I once built a .60 caliber rifle and used a 5/16" ramrod hole and used successively larger ramrod pipes and had a 1/2" diameter at the muzzle.
David   

[rich pierce]

Some original Hawken plains rifles, halfstock and fullstock, have 7/16” ramrods. They sure do look husky.

[Wyoduster]

Wyo, Looking good so far. I think you are going to understand the tang issue when you go to inlet the trigger plate, if you use the Hawken triggers that is. 

 Trigger is inletted in and NOW I fully see the problem.... Thought I understood before but its plain as pie now. I'm using a Long Hawken style trigger. Guess I can fasten it from below with a screw on the ends.
Any other thoughts? 

[Clark Badgett]

Trigger is inletted in and NOW I fully see the problem.... Thought I understood before but its plain as pie now. I'm using a Long Hawken style trigger. Guess I can fasten it from below with a screw on the ends.
Any other thoughts?

If you know a good welder, you could have him tig weld an extension onto your present tang. Or you could buy a long tang the same size as the one you have and use it, if you don't mind refitting a new tang to your barrel. Or you could just do as you are thinking, I don't know why a wood screw wouldn't hold the trigger plate in. Maybe someone else would know if it's workable or not.

[mountainman70]

Hi Wyoduster, if you would like to see some varations on the Hawken trigs, tang,etc, on gunsinternational.com , search Hawken, there is an antique fullstock J & S marked for 32,800.00  with some interesting  early varations, if it indeed is a Hawkem, and probably is. Anyway, food for thought. Have a goodun,welcome to the forum. Dave F

[Wyoduster]

I decided this afternoon to fasten the trigger guard to the trigger assembly. Tap a hole in trigger and threaded the guard. It all went good.. (could have been a scat bit further front) but I was worried about that set trigger.. and I taped and fastened the rear also.

[Daryl]

Is that a brass, early Hawken guard? Was there EVER such a thing?

[Wyoduster]

Is that a brass, early Hawken guard? Was there EVER such a thing?

 It is older style but its German silver.. just looks brassy