Author Topic: Casting lead balls questions? (Read 7400 times)

ScottH · « **on:** January 17, 2018, 07:23:41 PM »

Well I finally got to try casting.

We fired up the Lyman 20 pound furnace and put in some lead ingots we had, I don't know what the alloy is on this stuff but it is what we had so we tried it. We were working in the garage with the doors and window open and it was about 35 degrees F out side. I eventually got a few .530 round balls with almost no wrinkles from my Lee aluminum mold, but it took a while. I later weighed one of the best ones and it was somewhere between 210 and 220 grains, so I think this stuff is alloyed with tin maybe for casting black powder cartridge bullets? We tried casting some conicals and never did get one that looked good.

Now to my question: Was it to cold for casting and the molds were subject to being to cool for good results? Have you casters been successful casting when it is close to freezing? Im going to get some pure lead to try will that cast easier than say 20 to 1 alloy?

thanks
Scott

smylee grouch · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2018, 07:38:29 PM »

I cast up a bunch of .530s the other day with a Lee mold in about 45- 50 degree temps out of pure lead and it took about 4-5 casts to start getting good balls. Mine ended up at 219-220 gr.

somehippy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2018, 07:41:42 PM »

As long as your casting from the same batch and there isn't contaminants I would lean towards the mould temp or the alloy temp fluctuating while casting. I've had days I had to throw back numerous balls or bullets before I got in a bit of a groove. If they don't look bad I'd just keep casting till the batch is gone then weight sort em.

Daryl · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2018, 09:26:04 PM »

I set the mould blocks on the rim of the pot to warm up while the lead is melting. Before electric, when I used a stove, I'd set the blocks beside the flame to warm up. I like to cast

wrinkle-free balls from the get-go, rather than casting balls just to heat the mould up.

When casting in the winter time, you need to run the pot hotter. A wind break to protect the pot from air movement will also help.

These funny looking balls with large sprues, are from a Tanner mould from the UK. I use wire strippers to cut into the sprue at the ball's surface, then

turn/twist the ball in my fingers and the sprue comes off perfectly. No further trimming, and no orientation

of the sprue before loading is necessary.

Brand new .570 Lyman mould, sprayed with moly. That is every ball cast from start to finish - no wrinkles from the get-go.

I've been casting pure or nearly pure round lead balls since 1972.

Well cast balls of pure lead should look like jewels in the sunshine.

photo image hosting

Note the crystallization on these balls, pictured with Tracy's Horn. They are WW alloy.

Standing Bear · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2018, 09:47:21 PM »

When I plug in my 20 lb Lee Pot I hang the mold to be used w mold open and sprue plate swung as if a ball has just been made. Off set a little so the plate hangs on the side as well as the hinge pin. When my thermometer (you do have a dial thermometer with a 6” probe, right?) is around 750-850* F all is ready. I’ve found a welding glove works great for cutting the sprue and returning the puddle to the pot. For minie balls I found 900-950* works better

To predict the weight of a lead RB, i use the diameter cubed x 1,475. So .530 cubed = .148887 x 1,475 = 219.6.

Daryl · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2018, 10:28:45 PM »

I have never used a thermometer - planned to give it a whirl, but am fairly good at getting perfect casts without one.

I use lined leather work gloves. The smallish ball-peen hammer handle is only used for tapping the hinge if needed.

I've been using that hammer handle for this job since 1978 - 40 years now.

Daryl · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2018, 10:45:24 PM »

Quote from: Standing Bear on January 17, 2018, 09:47:21 PM

When I plug in my 20 lb Lee Pot I hang the mold to be used w mold open and sprue plate swung as if a ball has just been made. Off set a little so the plate hangs on the side as well as the hinge pin. When my thermometer (you do have a dial thermometer with a 6” probe, right?) is around 750-850* F all is ready. I’ve found a welding glove works great for cutting the sprue and returning the puddle to the pot. For minie balls I found 900-950* works better

To predict the weight of a lead RB, i use the diameter cubed x 1,475. So .530 cubed = .148887 x 1,475 = 219.6.

Interesting, but that formula does not work with .682" balls for my 14 bore rifle. The balls I cast weigh 482gr. in the pure lead I have. The formula listed comes out at 467.9gr. whereas that is close to that .482" mould casts in WW, but at .683" and 465gr.weight.

A .677" ball, which is 15 bore in size, weighs 7000 divided by 15 = 466.7 gr. in pure lead.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2018, 12:16:10 AM »

The formula I use is dia. x dia. x dia. x 1503 fr my 62 cal. (.610 + or -) and it comes out within 1 or 2 grains for that size ball and the lead I'm using.

Standing Bear · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2018, 12:56:40 AM »

Sorry guys. Don’t know where that 1475 numbercame from. Just popped out of my head. I looked up the old calculation which is 1504.56.

Mea culpa.
TC

hanshi · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2018, 01:00:55 AM »

I have a Lee pot I bought in the 1970s, no thermometer. I just let the pot get as hot as it can and cast. I particularly like the Lee molds; but also have Tanner, RCBS, Lyman, T/C, and Saeco molds.

Never thought about "moly" spray, Daryl. Is there a particular kind that you use?

ScottH · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2018, 02:37:53 AM »

Thanks for all of the advice and information, I appreciate it!
I don't have a thermometer yet but plan on getting one.
I will be continuing with this casting until I get it right

Daryl · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2018, 04:34:26 AM »

Quote from: hanshi on January 18, 2018, 01:00:55 AM

I have a Lee pot I bought in the 1970s, no thermometer. I just let the pot get as hot as it can and cast. I particularly like the Lee molds; but also have Tanner, RCBS, Lyman, T/C, and Saeco molds.

Never thought about "moly" spray, Daryl. Is there a particular kind that you use?

Rapine used to sell a "mould prep", which seemed to be a very thin liquid graphite. I started off using MS Moly and when that runs out, I will switch to the Lyman Moly spray bullet coating I bought this year. I am sure it will work the same.
The moly has to be a bullet coating spray, so it wants to stay on the blocks. It seems to work well and I've now sprayed all of the moulds I am currently using. I have and use Tanner, Lee, Lyman, Saeco, Palmissano & Ohaus, blocks and, almost forgot, a brand new 4 cavity NOE mould for an air rifle.
NOE aluminum blocks are really nice - a super professional set of mould blocks, make Lee moulds look like second hand toilet paper - oops - maybe not that bad

.
The NOE blocks for hollow point bullets have adjustable stems so you can make them as deep as you want, or switch the pin around, even it up and cast flat noses with the same mould. Truly beautiful blocks, they are.

smylee grouch · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2018, 05:24:10 AM »

Do you have any kind of contact info on NOE such as phone # or web site.

Daryl · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2018, 08:06:37 AM »

sure- Google knows:

http://noebulletmoulds.com/

new site:

http://noebulletmolds.com/main/

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #14 on:** January 18, 2018, 09:27:32 AM »

Scott,

I've done a lot of casting in cold weather, but after about minus 20 C it gets irritating, and need a shelter to keep any breeze off the pot.
Sometimes I have to give up, but if not too cold it's Ok. I dip one corner of my mould in the molten lead, and keep it there until the lead doesn't stick to it any more, after that, you can pretty well cast without throwing any back in the pot.
Never had a proper melting pot, and never a thermometer for the lead, but cast nice shiny balls most of the time. Turn heat down if they look frosted.

hanshi · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2018, 12:43:33 AM »

Thanks, Daryl; I'll be trying some soon.

Standing Bear · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2018, 03:29:42 AM »

By using the thermometer I’ve found the Lee thermostat to not be very consistent. Sometimes 2-3 casting sessions I can leave it on previous setting then have to change up or down a mark or 1 1/2. I like to increase lead temp for large minie balls.

Release agent, I use a Frankfort Arsenal product called Drop Out. Main ingredient is graphite. Works on iron and aluminum molds.

https://www.cambridgelsat.com/bookstore/frankford-arsenal-bullet-mold-release-agent/B00EVNSFKY/

Daryl · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2018, 09:01:27 PM »

That is a lot cheaper than the Lyman Moly spray. It is a smaller can though - looks about 1/2 size as the Lyman can is 13 oz.
If you can buy that one through the mail, I'd get the Frankfort stuff, unless, of course, you want to spray some bullets as
the Moly spray works on both handgun and cast rifle bullets too.

Standing Bear · « **Reply #18 on:** January 20, 2018, 12:03:08 AM »

Hmmm. Hadn’t thought abut it as a bullet lube.

Maven · « **Reply #19 on:** January 20, 2018, 09:55:14 PM »

NAPA auto parts stores, and I'm sure others, carry spray cans of alcohol-based dry graphite lube. NAPA used to call theirs "DGF 123." While it works extremely well as a release agent on bullet molds, it also decreases bullet diameter: by how much depends on how heavily you apply it. Btw, it's also easily removed with an alcohol soaked cotton swab, soft toothbrush, etc.

Daryl · « **Reply #20 on:** January 20, 2018, 09:56:23 PM »

The MS Moly and the Lyman Moly sprays are for spraying jacketed bullets.

I tried it with my .50cal. Sharps bullets with smokeless & it worked fine, no leading.

Moly is not a lube for shooting black powder bullets. Use black powder lubes for black powder driven bullets.
Some moly's as in Hoppe's or maybe it was Birchwood Casey's, are not for coating bullets, but are surface lubricants
for moving parts & wipe off as easily as dry erase felt pen. Dry erase felt pens, BTW- are good fro blackening front sights.
I always carry one in my kit, now, just for that. Works as well as the spray can of sight-blacken as the dry erase felt pen
is non-reflective. It will of course, wipe off instantly if you need a shiny front sight, just as-does the spray can black.

Black powder lube must keep the black powder powder fouling soft, and leave a lube star at the muzzle.
Moly spray will not do that- obviously.

1/. fouling at the muzzle - not enough lube
2/. fouling at the breech - lube too hard
3/. fouling full length of barrel, lube no good for bp
3/+fouling full length of barrel - poor fit of bullet in barrel "loose fit", or too hard & too small

This is for ml's as well as bp ctg.

JB · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2018, 05:54:59 AM »

will small wrinkles hurt anything?

jb

smylee grouch · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2018, 06:13:26 AM »

They will make the ball lighter and can indicate lead or mold that is not hot enough. If the ball cools too fast you might also be getting voids in the ball which can make your ball off center and lighter. Try to keep the mold as level as possible when you are letting the ball solidify. My experience anyway.

FDR · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2018, 06:14:46 AM »

You can also smoke the mold cavity with a candle to help with eliminating the wrinkles.

Fred

Old Ford2 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2018, 02:44:03 PM »

When casting in cold temperatures, it helps a lot to keep a cover over the pot.
Yes I know how will you dip for lead? I keep the lid (cover ) partially over the pot, but enough room to dip for lead.
You also have to keep the mold hot, or you will get wrinkly balls ( nobody likes wrinkly balls

)
You can dip the corner of the mold in the lead, but keep the mold closed.
Remember lead that is too hot is dangerous to you.
Big bullets ( .58 mine balls of pure lead ) take a little practice to get them right.
The melted lead and the mold have to be at the right temperature or you will have wrinkles, pin holes, or half bullets.
While casting I spray the molds with PAM ( olive oil ) a kitchen product. It does not build up.
Fred

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Author Topic: Casting lead balls questions? (Read 7400 times)

somehippy

JB