Author Topic: Lock building videos (Read 5929 times)

Metalshaper · « **on:** January 20, 2018, 11:42:50 PM »

Ok, My tablet seems to have lost it's Search Fu

I think APV has a lock building video out, with Mike Miller??
Are there any other videos that specifically show building a
Gun lock from scratch.. titles and such?? Or books dedicated to
The practice?

I've made my own gun locks but those types aren't discussed here..
But I'd really like to get into, is knowing what goes into making a quality
Flintlock?? The skills and techniques to make all the parts by hand?

Respect Always
Metalshaper\Jonathan

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2018, 12:22:43 AM »

As if making long rifles isn't already hard enough....

You're a far better man than I!

Bob Roller · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2018, 01:02:05 AM »

Quote from: Metalshaper on January 20, 2018, 11:42:50 PM

Ok, My tablet seems to have lost it's Search Fu

I think APV has a lock building video out, with Mike Miller??
Are there any other videos that specifically show building a
Gun lock from scratch.. titles and such?? Or books dedicated to
The practice?

I've made my own gun locks but those types aren't discussed here..
But I'd really like to get into, is knowing what goes into making a quality
Flintlock?? The skills and techniques to make all the parts by hand?

Respect Always
Metalshaper\Jonathan

What kind of gunlocks are not discussed here? I have seen fine modern
hand made locks in the last 40 years,Manton style,a matched pair and
was told it was all hacksaw and files.After talking to Lynton McKenzie
about this he then told me of the fine hard wood masters he saw for a
casting process and because of the number of these ultra fine locks that
are still around, the hacksaw and files were not the only tools.
I agree with Mike Brooks on the labor intensive nature of making a long
or for that matter,a short rifle.I purged my thinking of these romanticized
ideas before I was 20 and am now nearly 82
In years now long I recall of people saying the knew some legendary old man
that made anything and everything with the most primitive tools and methods
and all this for some preposterously low wage.With one exception,I say that
was mostly hogwash.The exception was a man in Kentucky that forged mainsprings
from cold chisels and a magazine wrote about him.

Bob Roller

Marcruger · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2018, 01:42:17 AM »

I have to paraphrase Wade Patton once again....

"Heck yeah. Be a Boss, make a lock!"

God Bless, Marc

oldtravler61 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2018, 01:58:58 AM »

I always wonder about the mountain people of Appalachia. They seemed to have the will to make any an everything they needed. Don't think a gun lock would have slowed them down much..imho

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2018, 02:07:43 AM »

Quote from: oldtravler61 on January 21, 2018, 01:58:58 AM

I always wonder about the mountain people of Appalachia. They seemed to have the will to make any an everything they needed. Don't think a gun lock would have slowed them down much..imho

Yes they were talented and very good at making what they needed but they weren't dumb. They realized that it was easier to make something easier than making a lot then trade or sell it to buy one of the cheap hardware store locks that were imported from England by the barrel full!
Dennis

Metalshaper · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2018, 03:00:57 AM »

Bob,
I make Percussion side slapper and underhammers

I do have a large Siler down in the shop, but the gun I'm thinking on is more of a southern mountain halfstock and would benefit from a more English patterned lock. Figured I might try and build something? No harm in the trying is there? And any machining skills I learn from it can't be taken away ( more or less )
Too stupid to know better or more broke than I'd like to admit

Mainly I like learning and enjoy the challenge while doing it!

Respect Always
Metalshaper\jonathan

Metalshaper · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2018, 03:11:14 AM »

Also, trying to get back into a building mode. I'm 9 days post knee replacement, second one in 7 months, and am looking forward to being able to actually stand and work in the shop again.. that would be a definite change in the last few years

Looking for any help or suggestions.. just broke out my JHAT volumes n going over the lock notes by Gary Brumfield
Thanks
Respect Always
Metalshaper\jonathan

Marcruger · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2018, 03:16:40 AM »

" I always wonder about the mountain people of Appalachia. They seemed to have the will to make any and everything they needed. Don't think a gun lock would have slowed them down much..imho"

There is another aspect to those mountain folks. Many products were imported from Europe and came in at ports such as Charleston, Wilmington, Norfolk, etc. It was a LONG way by wagon or horseback over the mountains into the Appalachians. Often making things was much more cost effective than buying and shipping (or carrying) that far. Conversely, it doesn't appear that many guns were made at import towns such as Wilmington, as import guns were relatively cheaper.

Recall that the Western North Carolina Railroad was chartered by the State of NC due to the 1845 drought where many folks in the mountains died. There was no way to get enough supplies to people by wagon, so the railroad was chartered to make sure that didn't happen again.

It was not easy getting into the mountains, so those Scots-Irish hardy stock folks made do and created. They also didn't take kindly to someone infringing on their fierce independence, as Ferguson found to his detriment.

Best wishes, and God Bless, Marc

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2018, 03:30:35 AM »

I understand the will/need to make your own lock. That being said, it is very rare to find an Appalachia rifle with anything but a store bought English export lock. They'd make their own barrels and set triggers but seemed to have avoided making locks.

Metalshaper · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2018, 03:44:46 AM »

Well, good thing I'm not Appalachian

I'm looking to gain experience in my gun building skills and always looking to
Improve the quality of my machining and building techniques!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper\jonathan

Majorjoel · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2018, 11:44:11 AM »

Jonathan, I have always admired a man for his capabilities in the fine arts of metal working. I have seen your work in the past regarding those "other" locks and must say I was impressed! You are one of the few who IMHO would succeed at such endeavor's pertaining to a scratch built flintlock.

Aside from any "how to" books, websites, or video's my best advise would be to start with a well built, antique or production modern lock that comes close to the one you want to make for yourself.
For example, utilizing a good Chambers Late Ketland, where the internal mechanism is all laid out for you to pattern after.

I wish you well on this project and hope that you will share your experience with us here!

hen · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2018, 03:21:00 PM »

We should remember that Lynton Mackenzie had a very quirky sense of humour and would tell the most outrageous fibs if he thought that people would believe them, as in this case. I knew Lynton in the UK before he left for the USA; he is sadly missed.

Metalshaper · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2018, 09:55:59 PM »

Majorjoel ,

I appreciate the compliment! I'm still working on my lock building skills.
The idea I have is that at least once, I wanna try and build each kind of lock from
Match through underhammer.. and hopefully gain the skills to mount them to an appropriate firearrm..

Respect Always
Metalshaper /Jonathan

L. Akers · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2018, 10:50:54 PM »

Go to Amazon books and look up Firearms Lock Designing by Steve Culver. It contains most of what you need for the internals. There is also a wealth of information on this forum. Search some of Jim Chambers' posts.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2018, 01:36:22 AM »

Quote from: Metalshaper on January 21, 2018, 03:00:57 AM

Bob,
I make Percussion side slapper and underhammers I do have a large Siler down in the shop, but the gun I'm thinking on is more of a southern mountain halfstock and would benefit from a more English patterned lock. Figured I might try and build something? No harm in the trying is there? And any machining skills I learn from it can't be taken away ( more or less )
Too stupid to know better or more broke than I'd like to admit
Mainly I like learning and enjoy the challenge while doing it!

Respect Always
Metalshaper\jonathan

Jonathan, You're nowhere near stupid and I fully realize your desire to make
such a lock.I have NEVER made a sideslapper or an underhammer lock of any
kind.Also I certainly realize the limits imposed by lack of money.
Do you have a milling machine or access to one?A complete one piece flintlock
plate can be whittled from block of 1018 if care is used and careful measurements are
made.I recall of making such a plate in Bill Large's shop many years ago and used
his then new Bridgeport mill to do it. I did not make the frizzen or the cock but
do remember a completed lock,finished I think by Bill's son in law Bob Dailey.
Getting back to your desire to do this,I am viewing this as a labor intensive job
that is now out of my range of interest or any desire to do it and at no point was
I wanting to discourage you.Good luck with this project.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2018, 01:48:59 AM »

Quote from: hen on January 21, 2018, 03:21:00 PM

We should remember that Lynton Mackenzie had a very quirky sense of humour and would tell the most outrageous fibs if he thought that people would believe them, as in this case. I knew Lynton in the UK before he left for the USA; he is sadly missed.

ALL the info Lynton gave me was spot on and no BSing or fibbing involved.
Here is an example. "What does a lockmaker do with a broken mainspring"?
He will forge it flat and make a turn screw* from it.The idea of finely made hard
wood masters for moulds sounds like good thinking to me and as he said,the high
number of surviving relics is made possible by castings.The Egyptians were said
to have made precise castings in gold and there is no reason to think it couldn't
be done in the time of Manton and his contemporaries in iron.
Bob Roller
*screw driver

ddoyle · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2018, 03:37:11 AM »

Quote

It was not easy getting into the mountains, so those Scots-Irish hardy stock folks made do and created. They also didn't take kindly to someone infringing on their fierce independence, as Ferguson found to his detriment.

Some would argue the payback came in the form of a coal and timber companies. Great shame that such a fantastic and uniquely sustainable culture was excised from Arcadia. Gypsy's know something eh.

Metalshaper · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2018, 03:44:49 AM »

Bob,

I'm good! Didn't think you were taking a swipe at me ..

I have a 6x12 Craftsman 109 lathe and Sieg X2 mini mill in the shop. Along with a porta-band, metal cutting bandsaw on a vertical stand..and a couple different band Sanders if I need them? Just trying to figure out the mechanics of those old lock designs and build techniques!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper\jonathan

Arcturus · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2018, 08:04:06 AM »

Jonathan,
I make a few personal accouterments, mostly from hide and bone and antler I've harvested, to accompany my flintlocks in the field, but....I'm just a hunter/collector/student of history in awe of (and very appreciative of the opportunity to rub shoulders with) the very talented artisans and craftsmen that frequent this site. I commend your desire to completely build your own lock and say go for it, man! To me, that's what this whole Longrifle culture and renaissance of the past fifty or more years is all about. Not whether it's a profitable use of your time, or the most efficient way. I understand and appreciate those who build for a living needing to be efficient, but for a lot of us, it's the journey and exploration of the past that is why we're here. If it was all about pure efficiency, or practicality, or cost/benefit analysis we'd just shoot plastic-stocked modern cartridge guns.... I look forward to seeing what you can make and wish you the best on your journey.

deepcreekdale · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2018, 04:56:04 PM »

Years ago when the world was new, I built a flint lock from scratch using a hacksaw, files, bench grinder and a drill press. As others have said, very labor intensive, it took forever and the finished product was not much to look at. But, it did work, and I learned a ton about lock geometry, metal polishing, proper types of metal to use, spring making etc. I had even less money then sense in those days but it was a great experience. Today, I have handmade a few Miquelet locks for Spanish guns which are simpler than the locks most of us are familiar with using my forge to shape some of the parts. Much less labor intensive as they do not have the tumbler/sear arrangement found on northern European locks. Once you make the cock, you are practically home free. There are only 2 sources for these locks, the Rifle Shoppe and E J Blackley which is another way or saying there really aren't any sources for them. I would love to figure out a way to make castings of these myself but haven't gotten that far into that yet.

Metalshaper · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2018, 09:31:17 PM »

I have a lot of spring stock available to me. When I worked in line maintenance and operations.. I was allowed to salvage some of the power rodder drive rod! This material is high quality spring rod, that is about 7\16-1\2" diameter. It can be forged and or ground to shape!
So besides some of the strips of spring stock I got from DGW.. I think there might be enough for a few locks

Respect Always
Metalshaper\Jonathan

snapper · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2018, 03:29:14 AM »

Dag, you better get after it. I want to see a new flintlock in September.

I promise I will keep TOF away from it.

Fleener

Metalshaper · « **Reply #23 on:** January 23, 2018, 04:42:25 PM »

Quote from: snapper on January 23, 2018, 03:29:14 AM

Dag, you better get after it. I want to see a new flintlock in September.

I promise I will keep TOF away from it.

Fleener

Art,

That's funny right there

I'm trying to get myself re-energized and back into a building frame of mind! Last few years with my legs hurting so much.. it's been hard to even pretend to get interested in building anything.. let alone hold up my end of a 40+ hr week in the lab.. I'd like to also have a new muley up there as well as a flinter

My best to you and the family

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

Rolf · « **Reply #24 on:** January 24, 2018, 08:22:38 PM »

Want to see someone make everything from scratch? This guy is awesome.

http://www.forum.svartkrutt.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=24979

Best regards
Rolf

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Author Topic: Lock building videos (Read 5929 times)

ddoyle