drilling and tapping barrels for breechplug low tech

[Justin Urbantas]

I have a straight octagon smoothbore barrel that I'd like to cut into 9 short pistol barrels. I want to drill and tap each short barrel for a breechplug, and I'd like to confirm if the way I have in mind makes sense.  My plan is to cut the barrels to length then square both ends. Next I would measure the plug depth, and using a hand drill I would drill the breech end to that depth with a series of bits ending with one that is appropriate size for the tap.  Then I would thread the hole with a tapered tap, and finish with a bottom tap. After that I would install the plug and check that it sits flush on both ends.  Does this sound okay?  I don't have a machine shop, so everything I do is on the small scale. Thanks guys

[ddoyle]

How thick are the walls of the barrel? some (most) octagon to round barrels might not have enough barrel wall for most of thier length. Look at the muzzle- is there room in the wall for threads?  Decide how much barrel wall you think is safe to breech.

Make sure you are starting with a barrel that is greater then 40+ inches so you do not create a pile of prohib barrels.

You want to make some breeching tools, look at some of Jerry's posts or read Stella and Harrison. A tool to square the ends, a tool  to make the hole round- depthed and square shouldered.  You are then going to need to hold the tap square- Taylor said he used to use a drill press with the table turned.   Turning a 3/4-16 tap is not like turning a 8-32 tap-  lots of H.P required.

Buy a lathe or go to the high school in North van on weds nights and make the breeching tools for a 10 dollar drop in fee to the machine shop. Just get ready for the sticker shock on a piece of 01 stock large enough to make the tooling- buy a lathe.

[Justin Urbantas]

it is a straight octagon 1 1/8" the full length.  lots of meat, and I'm making 4.5" barrels. I don's have money or space for a lathe, and I have absolutely zero experience with one. Don't even know how to turn one on!

[rich pierce]

James Everett Wilson has described how he does it old school and low tech.  You might search his posts.

At a museum in Pennsylvania, I believe the Boulton gun works, there were displayed a number of tools for breaching without a lathe.  Obviously they were doing it without a lathe or they would not have made the hand tooling. 

However the tools may have been finished on a lathe after forging.

Drilling and facing tools had pilots that fit various bores and made sure everything was centered.  Tapping tools the same.

I agree find a bud with a lathe unless you’re a blacksmith/tool maker.

[Mike Brooks]

They say curiosity killed the cat...what are you going to do with 9 barrels 4 1/2" long that are 1 1/4" across the  flats?

[ddoyle]

My apologies to James Everett Wilson. My memory attributed his generous posts/photos to Jerry. (got the first letter correct)

A lathe costs 400 dollars- one breeching job costs $50- 100.00 (and at that it is too cheap).  No one ever regrets owning a small lathe they just regret waiting so long to get one.

Mike- It is part of a federal make work project for under employed firearms techs- They have a number stamp set that goes from #1 to #9 and they are itching for a chance to use em.  -

[Justin Urbantas]

They say curiosity killed the cat...what are you going to do with 9 barrels 4 1/2" long that are 1 1/4" across the  flats?

The barrel is actually 1 1/8" octagon. Don't know where I got 1 1/4" from, but I plan on making a pile of pistols similar to this .62 cal pocket howitzer

[Pukka Bundook]

I'd just try one before I chopped up the barrel into short bits Justin.

Remember also they'll need registering.

[Daryl]

Good choice, though - 4 1/2" will keep them from being PROHIBS - HOWEVER ----- 

I think you should plan on making them 4 1/2" INSIDE length - that being from the front of the breech plug,

or you may find you are building prohibited firearms. Yeah - I know it's a stupid law.

With a 1/2" long (interior) breech plug, that will make them 5" in length overall.

My non-original .45 Deringer has a 2 1/2" bl. and it is classified as a prohibited firearm.

I do like the looks of that 'original' in the picture.

[Hudnut]

Please excuse the two pinfires in the photo.
The two belt pistols in the middle are both 24 gauge.  The Brits didn't fool around when it came to bore size.



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[Justin Urbantas]

Good choice, though - 4 1/2" will keep them from being PROHIBS - HOWEVER ----- 

I think you should plan on making them 4 1/2" INSIDE length - that being from the front of the breech plug,

or you may find you are building prohibited firearms. Yeah - I know it's a stupid law.

With a 1/2" long (interior) breech plug, that will make them 5" in length overall.

My non-original .45 Deringer has a 2 1/2" bl. and it is classified as a prohibited firearm.

I do like the looks of that 'original' in the picture.

I was wondering where they would measure from on the barrels. If it is front to back, or if they poke in a ramrod, and measure the actual bore length. The picture of the original has a 4" barrel. 

[Eric Kettenburg]

Remember also they'll need registering.

My blood pressure just spiked up about 200% until I realized he's in Canada.

[Bob Roller]

Are there any small locks available like the one shown?
Not wanting work,only wondering.

Bob Roller

[ddoyle]

I was wondering where they would measure from on the barrels.

Justin, they cover that part during in the CFC course- this stuff aint for wonderin it is for finding out from the horses mouth. Sorry to sound like a dick but anytime  hacksaw and pistol occur in the same sentence you really want to know what is what and do not want to be floundering around on the internet.  You do realize a another Justin is your reigning soveriegn AND statutory minimums never completely left with Harper. Dangerous bussiness. Play with long guns and save yourself the grief. Pistols really aint much fun anyway.

[Clark Badgett]

You fellas make me oh so happy to be living in the US, where muzzleloaders aren't even considered guns by law.   

[ddoyle]

Truth is we got it way better up here when it comes to what we can and cannot play with, transport, import, and export. There are a few sticking points but we just keep those, not so bothersome, regs on the books so we do not make our nieghbours jealous and initiate yet another 'migration'. Tho y'all are more then welcome- bring your touques. (please)

Mods- sorry, can't help myself we are in desperate need of another million American expats up here and I am lobbying

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Here is a really low-tech barrel breeching method.  Actually, I find the old tools very much easier to use than modern taps, dies and twist drills.  Trying to keep a 3/4 inch modern tap straight by hand is a challenge!

Jim


http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=33217.msg318587#msg318587

[Hudnut]

This little 4 1/4" lock would be a dandy for a small pistol.  The way the mainspring is arranged, it will fit a musket sized barrel.  The upper tab on the mainspring is long, so the upper arm of the mainspring is positioned low.







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Make sure that breechface to muzzle exceeds 105mm.

I am fortunate to have a lathe with a 1 1/2" spindle bore.  Makes breeching a barrel a straightforward job.

[Justin Urbantas]

Guys,

Here is a really low-tech barrel breeching method.  Actually, I find the old tools very much easier to use than modern taps, dies and twist drills.  Trying to keep a 3/4 inch modern tap straight by hand is a challenge!

Jim


http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=33217.msg318587#msg318587

Thanks for the advice Jim. Very nice tools. Could you achieve similar results by drilling the hole, squaring the shoulder with an end mill in a drill, and then using 3 taps? A tapered tap to start, then a bottom tap, then a bottom tap ground flat with no chamfer?

[Justin Urbantas]

This little 4 1/4" lock would be a dandy for a small pistol.  The way the mainspring is arranged, it will fit a musket sized barrel.  The upper tab on the mainspring is long, so the upper arm of the mainspring is positioned low.







image hosting services free

Make sure that breechface to muzzle exceeds 105mm.

I am fortunate to have a lathe with a 1 1/2" spindle bore.  Makes breeching a barrel a straightforward job.

I thought about using a John Bailes lock with a little trimming

[Pukka Bundook]

Justin,

If you're handy you can do it with a good eye and taps.  Do mine that way.
Maybe mine aren't new, as G-father bought them before the War.   Maybe they know more than me and help me out.  Between us we get it done.

[Justin Urbantas]

Justin,

If you're handy you can do it with a good eye and taps.  Do mine that way.
Maybe mine aren't new, as G-father bought them before the War.   Maybe they know more than me and help me out.  Between us we get it done.

I'm a pretty handy guy. I'm sure I can figure it out.  Old tools usually are best. Most of my blacksmith tools are 150+ years old.

[Lucky R A]

      You might want to do a little research on "Nock" pistols, made in England.  I copied one for a client in Florida.  When we test fired it,  I was very surprised at the accuracy.  The 62 cal. 4" barrel was made by Rice.  Three of us had no problem keeping our shots on a paper plate at 10 yards. w/ only a front sight.  I charged it with 40 gr. of 2f and it was not unpleasant to shoot...I am sure the big 62 cal. ball would change the intentions of any miscreant.

Ron

[Pukka Bundook]

I bet it was a bit noisy, Ron.  (4" barrel and all)
My old 18-bore with a 9" barrel and 22 bore with 6" barrel are both noisy!

I think Rigby (Dublin) made some of the nicest short man-stoppers.

[Justin Urbantas]

      You might want to do a little research on "Nock" pistols, made in England.  I copied one for a client in Florida.  When we test fired it,  I was very surprised at the accuracy.  The 62 cal. 4" barrel was made by Rice.  Three of us had no problem keeping our shots on a paper plate at 10 yards. w/ only a front sight.  I charged it with 40 gr. of 2f and it was not unpleasant to shoot...I am sure the big 62 cal. ball would change the intentions of any miscreant.

Ron

Was that a smoothbore, or rifled barrel? I figure with a groove filed in the tang as a sort of rough rear sight, 20 yards on a man sized target would be reasonable accuracy.