Slimming down the bottom of lock panel

[Mauser06]

I have my lock and trigger in place and functional. The trigger works properly.


My "issue" I am unsure of how to slim down the bottom of the lock panel when I get there...





The stock is in the style of Beck. You can see the bottom of the lock panel (and the entire lock panel" needs reduced. 


The trigger is a basic L&R single trigger.


I THINK I need to slowly file a notch into the trigger bar where it contacts the sear arm to inlet it a bit further.  But I'm not 100% sure. 


Thanks!

[Black Hand]

Remove wood in a gentle/shallow arc from the desired thickness at the bottom of the lock panel to just shy of the trigger-guard/trigger-plate inlet.
Perhaps one of the professional builders will have pictures to illustrate.

Don't file a notch into the trigger-bar...

[Mauser06]

I believe I know what you mean...but I think the bottom should be pretty "flat".


I guess once I reduce the depth of the panels, it won't take near the angle too...right now the lock is a good bit IN the mortise. There's a good bit too wood to reduce there. So much that I had to trim out the spot for the bottom of the hammer give it room.

[Black Hand]

I believe I know what you mean...but I think the bottom should be pretty "flat".

If so, reduce the arc so a flat remains. That said, not a lot of flat on a longrifle.
I'm hoping more experienced builders give input...

[M. E. Pering]

Mauser06,

When I get to this stage, I start by defining the size and shape of my lock molding.  You have your lock and your trigger fully inletted, so these are definite givens that won't be changed.  I make a set of both right and left moldings to be certain they meet my approval and transfer them to the wood.  Once this is done, it is a matter of just slowly shaping the top and bottom to blend the upper mouldings into the tang, and the bottoms to the trigger plate.  But keep in mind, the front of the trigger guard needs to be considered too, so I usually wait until I have the trigger guard installed as well before finalizing the bottom.  This is one of the last areas I work on before starting my decorative carving.

[smallpatch]

Mauser,
Ideally, the bottom should be flat,..... BUT, you are dealing with a precarve.  Thickness of the web, lock position, etc., will determine that bottom profile.
There is a lot of wood to remove.  Measure carefully, and you can probably reduce the whole thing, and possibly get that bottom line flatter.

[Mauser06]

After thinking out loud with my last reply I think you are right on. Once I reduce the height of the mortise, I can shape the bottom panel down and it's gunna work out.  Right now, with the excessive height of the mortise, that angle would be pretty steep and definitely"off".   


You're right...not much on a rifle is flat or square..but the bottom area around the lock isn't greatly sloped..


M. E. Pering, thank you!  That was my next question....when to inlet the trigger guard.  Didn't know if I should take it to final shape and then do the guard or do it now.

Right now, I've been getting everything inlet and functional but not to final shape. Example being the trigger plate is proud of the wood a bit in a spot and needs filed down yet.


I will press on. Lots to do yet.  Gotta tackle the buttplate yet...when I get my barrel back I gotta redo the tang and get the barrel pinned.


Small patch, I agree there's a lot of wood to remove from the lock area.  The top I am ok with...that's basically a flat from the edge of the tang down to the top edge of the lock panel.  The bottom is what I'm having trouble reducing and keeping more of a flat to. Only way to keep it closer to flat is if the trigger plate was deeper.  It won't go deeper as the trigger bar is in contact with the sear...seems "right" to me..trigger feels good and lock functions. I lost a lot of sleep worrying about the trigger and I'm glad I got it working right. 

[flehto]

The first thing I do is to drill a 1/8 dia hole through the web {bottom flat of the bbl inlet} at the front lock bolt area and depth mike fron the top of the forestock    down to the bottom of the RR hole . Subtracting the 3/8 RR dia from the measurement enables me to figure the web thickness. The measurement to the bottom of the RR hole plus 3/32" -1/8"  is where the bottom of your forestock should be. A little bit of cheating can be done, but not a whole lot.

1/8" or slightly less of flat bordering your lock on the bottom of the  lockplate and that's it.....the actual bottom of the forestock is as explained above.

The top pic shows my present build and to get so little wood beneath the bottom edge of the lockplate  and also a very slim LR, requires a thin web { 1/16" on this LR} and suitable  lock placement. The bottom pic is a Lancaster w/ not much wood below the bottom of the lockplate.....Fred

[Mauser06]

Flehto, I have the web figured out.





It's 3/16" and seems to be running try the entire length.  I drilled a 1/16" hole at the front of the lock to measure it.  The web is between the lines right where I wrote"web".


1/2" below that (3/8" rod and 1/8" of wood below)  puts me pretty dang close to the current bottom of the stock....so I guess my only option is to slope it to slim down the bottom of the lock panel?

[flehto]

Actually the final bottom of stock and the flat around the bottom of the lock are 2 different issues. You said the bottom of the stock is already correct, so a 1/8" border at the bottom of the lockplate should do and just taper the bottom of the stock as you said. The pic shown shows a bottom that has only a slight taper and is flat. It's the same Lancaster as shown in the previous post.....Fred

[Mauser06]

Thanx Fred! 



You guys are awesome and the pics I'm getting along with the replies is really helpful!!  I appreciate it!




I think the big thing throwing my eye off is the height of the lock mortise needs reduced significantly.  Once I do that, I think it'll look much better and the slope to get the lock panel thinned out won't be super significant. 


I know my first build could used a bit of a diet.  Trying to avoid that on this one.   I got a ways till I'm shaping yet... so we'll get there. And when I think I'm close I will post more pics and you guys can tell me where she's still fat..

[Chowmi]

I think you need to slim down the top of the lock panel as well.  It's too thick.  Same thing applies.  Should be pretty much a flat slope from the edge of your tang to the edge of the lock mortise (at least at the front). 
Norm

[M. E. Pering]

Maybe this will help clarify... The lock panel first needs to be brought to final level, and then the molding outline transferred.  After that, blend the molding into the trigger plate and front trigger guard inlet:


The part of the molding I am referring to is the part closest to the lock, and your eyes.  Technically, I should really call it the "Lock Panel".

[TommyG]

What always works for me is to inlet the entry pipe first, then the triggerguard(assuming your triggerplate is competed and to final depth).  That will determine the plane on the bottom of the rifle.

[Eric Krewson]

Another thing; the area between the tang and the top of the lock plate molding should be a continuous slant.

[Mauser06]

Great stuff!!  Thanx all!   Definitely going to be very helpful!   

[Curtis]

Mauser06, as you mentioned earlier, you can file some metal off the top of the trigger bar and inlet the trigger deeper, that will help you thin things a bit.

Curtis

[flinchrocket]

You might also take a look at the JP Beck in the ALR library. One in particular has been converted to percussion but still has the flint plate. Good pic's of lock and moulding.

[Mauser06]

Absolutely will consult references as I'm shaping. I have saved everything Beck I could find that was worth saving. As well as some books and KRF discs etc. I have some ammo...just need to apply it and execute the build and hopefully do it a little justice.

[Eric Krewson]

Here is an example of what not to do; this is my first build , I call it a "sorta" Beck. I didn't understand the slope from the tang to the lock panel at the time and thought the lock panel needed a deep groove around it to make it stand out, Wrong!

Anyway, the gun is a cloverleaf shooter at 50 yards, I even shot a 1 1/2" group at 100 with it this year but it sure is ugly.

Matter of fact, it has uglied well over a dozen deer to death, three this year alone.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Go back to the longbow Eric...your harvest number will likely decline.

[smart dog]

Hi,
Photos below should help you visualize the contours.




Don't be afraid to make the flat around the lock very small:


dave

[Mauser06]

More great info and pics!!   


Much appreciated!!!  They'll be put to good use!  Probably by more than just me.

[rich pierce]

The flatness of the area under the lock varies a great deal over time and with different styles.  Many but not all very early guns have quite a bit of depth and slope from the lock panel to the trigger plate. The same shaping would be completely out of place on a smaller, later piece. 


Added in edit: see Dave Person’s examples above.  Not flat. But early. Would not expect this on a SMR.

[Daryl]