Author Topic: Style for wing shooting (Read 2782 times)

Mauser06 · « **on:** March 01, 2018, 01:45:23 AM »

If you were looking to build a Fowler for shooting birds, rabbits etc...wing shooting...what would be best???

It's my understanding that many "Fowlers" as we know them, are more designed for shooting birds off the pond and not so much wing shooting.

I've never even held or shouldered a Fowler so I'm not sure if that's true or not.

Starting to plan ahead. I'd like a gun that shoulders and swings well for shooting birds, rabbits, Clay's etc...

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2018, 02:57:01 AM »

English, built so it fits you.

Daryl · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2018, 10:14:28 PM »

SxS's and a single - all similar styling like Mike suggested and all terrific for shooting 'flying'. A bit more drop in the bottom 20 bore, but it shoots very well indeed- fast on target from the carry position, is the key.

Joe S · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2018, 10:38:31 PM »

Quote

It's my understanding that many "Fowlers" as we know them, are more designed for shooting birds off the pond and not so much wing shooting.

Guns intended for shooting sitting waterfowl and those intended for flying upland game are entirely different guns. Like Mike said, the English figured this out a long time ago. They built long, heavy 10 and 12 bores for ducks and geese, and short, light upland bird guns, often in 20 bore. Get a copy of Great British Gunmakers, 1740-1790 by Neal and Back.

Mauser06 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2018, 12:04:23 AM »

Thanx all! Good info!

Any suggestions on bore and barrel length? Mostly would be true wing shooting. Like I said, rabbit, pheasant, grouse etc. I see some variation in length....and not sure what bore would be best. Was thinking of maybe a 16 as a "compromise" of sorts.

I have a designated turkey gun...and right now I don't hunt waterfowl.

I'd want something that shoulders fast and points well...

Arcturus · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2018, 12:32:12 AM »

16 or 20 gauge, and at least 42" barrel would be my choice. One thing I would add : Today we think of early fowling gun barrels mostly as octagon-to-round, but a lot of the originals meant for upland wing shooting had all round barrels for light weight and balance.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2018, 02:13:58 AM »

Depends on the time period, early English fowling guns (1750-1080's) had longer barrels, lets say an average of 42", varying between 38" and something as long as maybe 46". Later English guns (after 1800) got shorter and 1/2 stocked, lets say something between 30"-36" or so.
I have hunted pheasants with great success with barrels as long as 48", mind over matter and follow through are really important. I also enjoyed hunting with a original flint SXS with 34" barrels which seemed fairly nimble. Shoot a lot of skeet with that 34" barreled gun as well.
I shot skeet with a flint gun with 32" barrel too. I'm prepping to built a skeet gun with a 37" barrel one of these days as well.

Mauser06 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2018, 04:03:07 AM »

Thanx guys!

I was thinking somewhere in the 38-42" would probably be "nice". I don't typically hunt over a dog so I'm usually beating brush or in the woods after ruffed grouse.

It's a ways off....but I like to plan and snag parts as I find them.

Will do some research and try to find historically accurate info to base it off of. I may change my build order and put the Fowler 3rd in line and nothing 5th lol. Gotta see how the Early Lancaster plank build goes.

Daryl · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2018, 04:06:56 AM »

For fast swinging on bunnies and grouse, I'd want 31" to 34". My little 20 bore flint Hunkeler above, has a 31" bl. It's a delight to shoot clay birds with.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2018, 06:03:09 PM »

Mikes advise is sound, Mauser.

Don't create a cross-bred that's all. If you can get a copy of the book Jose mentions it'll help show the differences over 50 years.
There Were short flintlock sporting guns made in the "long gun" era, for covert shooting, but these were the exception rather than the norm.
The old duck guns or "bumpers" could be up to 2 -bore, and long barreled. these were for shooting from a rest or bumper, or shooting off a bank at sitting wildfowl.
To me, the most beautiful are the longer guns made in the 1750 -1780 period, maybe a bit earlier and later.

Richard.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2018, 06:15:18 PM »

A friend and I took our homegrown tradeguns to a pheasant club just to see how well they would work. Both guns were 20 gauge with 30” barrels. His was a standard grade, and mine was a chiefs grade replica. Both performed flawlessly. Since we both built our guns from scratch, we gave them a little more drop in the butt, because the pattern we had was as straight as a stick. Mine was more comfortable because it’s comb was rounded, while Milt’s was square. If I were going to build a smoothy that was primarily for wing shooting, I would use a short barrel rather than a long one.

Hungry Horse

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2018, 09:43:54 PM »

I don't think that it's necessary to have a short gun to shoot well on the wing. In 1981 at the Canadian Nationals in Ft. McMurray Alberta, using a replica Brown Bess 12 guage with a 42" bbl., in the trap match I broke 25 straight at 16 yards. I lost in a shoot off to a young fellow with a double twelve percussion gun missing # 6 of the next string...miss and out. Mohamed Aliu said it ain't braggin' if you can do it, but I am bragging. Now I shoot my Chambers' Penn Fowler with 20 gauge 46" long barrel, and don't have trouble with clay birds 'on the wing'. But I prefer a short double gun.

Mauser06 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2018, 10:07:20 AM »

Thanx guys!

Pukka, what do you mean by a cross-bred? Lol.

I haven't studied anything yet. But, might be a cross-bred of sorts. Probably will be a full stock. I really wanna go with a late ketland or another fast lock. Any little edge will likely help bust some critters. I've never had the round faced locks but have heard they are on the slower side.

I'd like to build something not out of the realm of being historically accurate...but at the same time, if I can't shoot it well, it's useless. I'm primarily a hunter. I think a good stock and lock will be pretty important. A nice balance and lighter gun that swings well...

I dabble in a bit of everything from crow calling to passing doves to jump shooting pheasant, rabbit and grouse. Depends what I feel like doing...lol.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2018, 04:45:18 PM »

Mauser,

By cross-bred I was meaning if you wanted an authentic looking gun, you would stick to the style that was in keeping, and not use parts from say 1750 and 1810.
If it's just a hunting gun, then the only person who's opinion matters is your own, so no worries!
I do like the Chambers R-faced and Early Ketland, and mine seem fast and I prime with 2F. Never used the late Ketland so can't compare.
I look forward to seeing your build!
Keep us up to speed with it.

R.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2018, 05:22:18 PM »

All of the large English Chambers locks are fast enough for wing shootin.

Justin Urbantas · « **Reply #15 on:** March 03, 2018, 07:23:18 PM »

One similar to these with a 20 ga 31" bbl is my plan for a wing gun. Also making a rifle barrel to swap in too.

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #16 on:** March 03, 2018, 09:19:53 PM »

I’m sorry, trapshooting, and wing shooting are two different animals. I’ve tried calling for the bird in the pheasant fields, and they rarely cooperate. I believe a shorter barrel is as important as a fast lock, if not more important. My chiefs grade trade gun has an old Lott lock on it that I have extensively reworked, but it still can’t be considered fast. My buddy Milt, and I, bagged 6 pheasants in about thirty minutes with our trade guns once. Of course we were hunting over what was arguably the best German Shorthair in Northern California at the time. I own a Northstar tradegun with a 42” barrel, that is a certified turkey killer, but I have a hard time connecting with fast moving targets with it.

Hungry Horse

Daryl · « **Reply #17 on:** March 03, 2018, 09:51:22 PM »

Agree with HH wholeheartedly. I've been (LEGALLY) shooting flying birds since I was 15 years old with a variety of pelters. When shooting rising birds or pass shooting, barrel length and lively feel is vitally important. Thus, my post above.
With even 36" of tube, the swing will be too slow. For modern trap, no problem, but still as witnesses at rendezvous every year, the winners at that sport also have barrels shorter than 32". I know this for a fact. There are lots of guys shooting their 20 bores with 38" and 40" or longer bls. Those guns win out on the trail walk shooting single balls, but not at trap the way we do it - you don't call for a bird, you walk and the bird is thrown at any time. Fast shooting prevails.

Mauser06 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2018, 10:21:13 PM »

Interesting. For some reason I thought longer may be better....but my favorite modern gun in the grouse woods has a 21" tube.

Guess I will start with some research materials and come back with questions after that...I have way too many now lol.

Arcturus · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2018, 10:58:54 PM »

I'm sure the shorter barrels are more efficient...over time upland flintlocks got shorter. But one can kill birds just fine with a 42" barrel. It's all about the weight and balance. Admittedly I don't take that flintlock into thick grouse covers if bagging a limit is the goal that day, but out in the open for pheasants, pointed over dogs? You bet. (Yes, you actually CAN "call" for real birds when hunting with good pointing dogs) Short barrels just don't seem right on the mid-18th Century-type guns I favor. Learning to cock the gun and mount a flintlock quickly and smoothly is at least as important in wingshooting with them as barrel length.

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Author Topic: Style for wing shooting (Read 2782 times)

Joe S