John Bumford trade gun

[Michael]

I just finished making a copy of the John Bumford trade gun illustrated in the new book 'Of Sorts for Provincials'. My question is: Is it an example of the English Type 'G' trade gun and is it what has called a" Carolina Trade Gun"?

It does not appear to have any Hudson Bay Co. stamps on the barrel or the lock so I don't think it was made for their use even though he was employed by Hudson Bay Co. at this time as a 'viewer'.  I get the idea that he was making trade guns and marketing them for sale in the Colonies as part of his own gun making business. Does anyone have any more information on these trade guns?

thanks
Michael

[Mike Brooks]

I believe it to be a variation of a Carolina gun. The buttplate is the only really unusual feature of this gun when compared to other Carolina guns. As far as I know there haven't been any others found in collections or archaeologically with that particular buttplate. Bumford was making guns to fill contacts for HBC as well as others. Each contact probably had slightly different specifications making the Carolina guns and the HBC guns slightly different.. Get Hamilton's Colonial Frontier Guns for more information.

[Levy]

This type of English tradegun was used extensively all over the southeast.  I work as a conservator for the State of Florida and we find the parts on land and in rivers.  A couple of fragments were found with 1715 Plate Fleet wrecks and I thought it was intrusive, but now I'm starting to think that this type of trade gun was around even then (1715).  The wreck of what is thought to be the Queen Anne's Revenge (1718) off Beaufort has turned up two complete sideplates and I believe the second one is still attached to part of the firearm.  A couple of years ago, a river diver turned in the remains of a Type G (Carolina Gun) that he found in the Suwannee River.  It had a .58 cal. (24 ga.) barrel that was 46 1/4" in length.  The barrel is 1.2" in diameter at the breech.  It has a brass rear sight located 4.2 inches from the breech.  The sight is not the usually encountered blocky type with the deep saw cut in the middle but was a very wide open V shape.  The ramrod pipes were made from thin brass and were let into the barrel channel and splayed out (no pins).  The remains of the stock (which are in pretty good condition) go from the wrist  out to the first ramrod pipe and includes a wrist escutcheon and the serpent sideplate. The buttplate and the triggerguard are missing.  The flintlock mechanism was signed (engraved) WILLIAMS in uppercase block letters.  John Williams is listed (in Indian Trade Guns) as having a contract with the HBC from 1715 - 1735.  Thomas Williams followed his father in 1738 and his wife Anne carried the contract from 1738 until 1744.  It 's quite possible that all three signed their guns WILLIAMS.  T.M. Hamilton mentions on page 33 of Colonial Frontier Guns that the open V brass rear sight is only found on Type C French Tradeguns.  I question this since I have seen two English barrels with this same sight.  It is always possible that the sights were changed out. 

James Levy   

[rich pierce]

That is terrific information.  If you have any pix please share as you have time.

[Levy]

Rich, Michael and Mike:

I'll find the CD with the pictures on it and send some to Rich and he can post them for me.  I haven't taken the time to figure out how to do it yet.  I took the parts of the Type G tradegun from the Suwannee River to the CLA Show last August.  I took the stock too, but had to keep it wet.  The breech end of the barrel skelp looked like it had a better grade of metal scarf welded on to it.  there is a welding seam where the rear sight was placed.

James Levy

[Mike Brooks]

Great! I'd love to see them!

[Michael]

James,

I would love to see any pictures and documentation on any English trade guns from the southeast part of the country. I have Hamiltons book and though it is helpful it leaves a lot of questions unanswered ( from the perspective of a gun maker).  Goodings book 'Trade Guns of the Hudson's Bay Company 1670-1970' has helped with some of the details. I think the English trade guns ( John Bumford's Gun) are neat and overshadowed by the use of the rifle in Colonial America especially on the frontier. I would expect to see a dozen trade guns being used for every riflegun on the frontier (just my opinion).

Michael

[Mike Brooks]

I would expect to see a dozen trade guns being used for every riflegun on the frontier (just my opinion)

I suspect a much larger ratio.

[Levy]

I've just sent a group of pictures of the Type G trade gun that was recovered from the Suwannee River to Rich and when he gets an opportunity, I'm sure he will post them.  The deerskin trade was huge in the southeast and I agree with you that there were probably a lot more trade guns down here than rifles.

James Levy

[rich pierce]

Posting over in the Antique section on this Suwanee River recovered Trade gun

[Mike Brooks]

You da man Rich!