Author Topic: I want to start collecting how do I grade and determine the value of a firearm  (Read 2814 times)

PaPax4

  • Guest
I want to start collecting the only thing I know about them is what I've seen on gun auction and gunbroker

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19521
I’d say you should focus and learn as much as possible about a very specific type of interest. Let’s say for example iron mounted percussion era Tennessee rifles or percussion Lancaster rifles suitable for the western trade. Pore over reference books to increase your knowledge base then study past auction catalogues and make a spreadsheet with the links, maker or school of unknown, condition notes, and price.

There are a lot of shiny refinished originals out there. At this time being refinished drops value as much as 20% (my guess). Note things like that.

Hopefully you will see a pattern emerging. Signed guns are worth more. Less restoration needed or done increases value.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Seth Isaacson

  • Library_mod
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1104
  • Send me your rifles for the ALR Library!
    • Black Powder Historian
Muzzle loading pricing is generally a lot more complicated than it is with mass produced firearms. Each gun is essentially one-of-a-kind. Prices are generally driven by time period, location, condition, maker, signed or unsigned, overall level and style of ornamentation, etc. You can generally get a descent idea of what a gun might be worth by trying to compare it with similar rifles from the same maker or at least same school but even then the prices can vary dramatically.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 10:41:58 PM by The Rambling Historian »
I am the Lead Historian/Firearms Specialist at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own personal interests in muzzle loading and history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Online Stoner creek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2913
You may want to decide whether you want to collect antique pieces or contemporary work. Much research is required to into collecting antique firearms. 
 With contemporary made guns it is not uncommon to be able to actually speak with the artists who created the piece. If not
, it’s likely that someone on this board knows or knew the maker of the work if it is signed. It has been my experience that prices are fairly static with contemporary guns too. Another plus is that you can take your contemporary made gun home and actually shoot it!
 Go to shows. Go to shows that are specific to this type firearm and look around. Ask questions. You’re going to like talking to all of the folks who have tables.
Good luck on your quest!
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 01:19:32 AM by Stoner creek »
Stop Marxism in America

Offline Molly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1506
Since the question is in the "antiques" section, I'll take it then that the interest is in "originals".  I have not yet found a credible source of values that generally works for a new collector.  But here is one approach.

1.  Narrow your focus....VERY narrow.  Like maybe one single maker or one small area. 

2.  Spend some time getting to know the original maker and the conditions that existed during "his" day.  Study his work.  Look at as many examples of his work that you can, up close and in person, if possible.

3.  Evaluate WHY you want to collect and WHY this maker.  What's the appeal?  Just "wanting to start collecting" honestly does not sound like it's rooted in good logic. 

4.  Buy ONE example of that makers work.  Pay what you will and then in time you will learn if you got a good deal OR if you got stung.  And THAT lesson will serve you well on future purchases even if you made a bad decision.  The easy lessons are never "cheap" but an expensive mistake that may take your breath away will not soon be forgotten and will hopefully lead you to make better future decisions.

5.  It would be great to connect with knowledgeable individuals who will offer sound guidance.

6.  Attend as many shows as you can.  Look and listen.  I like to say, keep your mouth shut and your ears open. Probe sellers for the rational of their prices.  Expect to hear sound justification why a work is priced in the mid-5 figure range (or more) rather than low 4 figure (or less) range.

7.  Understand that not everything a seller says about an offering is true!  (Imagine that!!)  But if you deal with sellers who have a passion for originals rather than the run of the mill "gun dealer" you can be a more confident of the facts.

Finally, "collecting" originals is not investing.  Original are NOT liquid assets and the general trend in value is down.  Collect for the gratification of owning works made by craftsmen from hundreds of years ago.  Speak to them and listen to the stories the tell.  Remember the hands that crafted them and the role they had in the lives of past owners and the courage that was required to live when they were newly made.

Good night John, George, John and John.  Your works are an inspiration even today.


Offline snapper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2432
One thing to take into consideration is disposable income.   If money is tight getting stung by a few hundred dollars can make paying to much more hurtful.   


Buying old guns can be a $#@* shoot sometimes.   

If it is piece that you really like and the item is scarce and you find out after you bought it that perhaps you might of paid to much for who cares?  You bought because you liked it.

Now if you bought to try and turn it for a profit that is another story.

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline vanu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Follow Molly's 7 points, except..."collecting originals is not investing" really is our number 1...Buy/collect what you love and you will never be disappointed, if you are looking at investment...look at Snapchat (down today...up tomorrow)...or (you pick it) bio-meds...

Offline WadePatton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5303
  • Tennessee
Follow Molly's 7 points, except..."collecting originals is not investing" really is our number 1...Buy/collect what you love and you will never be disappointed, if you are looking at investment...look at Snapchat (down today...up tomorrow)...or (you pick it) bio-meds...

For best risk management and ultimate results never "invest" in anything you do not fully understand.

If you are collecting for fun and have plenty to spend, just buy 'em and don't sweat values. Get what you like. You'll learn.  ;)

Bitcoin may be safer than any sort of antiques.  ::)

Hold to the Wind

Offline Buck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
  • A.F.A.M. # 934, Trinity Commandry #80
PaPax4,

The previous all gave good advice, happy hunting!

Buck

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3808
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
FIND A MENTOR!!!!!  Carefully choose him.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
[quote author=Shreckmeister
FIND A MENTOR!!!!!  Carefully choose him.
 The Shreckmeister is correct as he always is ( well almost always ).
Shreckmeister would be a good one!

I would also add go to as many of the Longrifle shows as you can. Try and talk to as many people as you can and get a feel of what you like.
JIM

Offline PPatch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2456
Hey Molly - great post about collecting antiques. Sound advice.

dp
Dave Parks   /   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Offline Seth Isaacson

  • Library_mod
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1104
  • Send me your rifles for the ALR Library!
    • Black Powder Historian
Buy/collect what you love and you will never be disappointed

Absolutely!
I am the Lead Historian/Firearms Specialist at Rock Island Auction Co., but I am here out of my own personal interests in muzzle loading and history.
*All opinions expressed are mine alone and are NOT meant to represent those of any other entity unless otherwise expressly stated.*

Offline Buck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
  • A.F.A.M. # 934, Trinity Commandry #80
PaPax4,

Where are you located? Depending on where you are, I'm sure someone here would be willing to meet you at a show and spend sometime introducing you to the community and provide a condensed run down of the ins and outs.

Buck