Author Topic: Building an English Fowler FINALLY FINISHED  (Read 50482 times)

Offline SingleMalt

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2018, 07:27:41 AM »
Glad to see you're back in the shop, Dave.  Hopefully, you'll continue to improve.
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Offline Justin Urbantas

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2018, 08:08:00 AM »
hope you feel better. Gun is coming along well

Online smart dog

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2018, 02:55:09 PM »
Thanks everyone for the healing thoughts.  I am getting better but I still get really tired out fast.  I'll have a spurt of energy and then it is "rubber legs" and I have to rest.  I hope that passes soon.  There is a brand new 2-dose vaccine for shingles that is to be given after you are 50.  The older vaccine was much less effective with only about a 60% success rate for people my age. Enough about health stuff.  Today, I intend to trim and start rough shaping the stock and start the lock inlay.  I should have more posted this evening.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2018, 04:03:39 PM »
Looking forward to the rest of the build. Get well.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 04:06:09 PM by Robert Wolfe »
Robert Wolfe
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Offline tlallijr

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2018, 04:36:52 PM »
Dave, I'm enjoying this thread very much and glad to hear you are feeling better.

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2018, 05:05:49 PM »
Great work on those draws, Dave.  They can be a pain....   Hope you’re back to 100% soon.

    Ed
Ed Wenger

Online smart dog

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2018, 02:44:36 AM »
Hi good friends,
I had a good day at last.  Boy did I need it.  I trimmed extra wood from the stock but I really wanted to do something fun today, so I made the ramrod thimbles.  The ALR site has at least one tutorial about making thimbles but I will add a method that is specifically suited to British fowling guns.  When working with steel mounts, our selection of appropriate parts is very limited.  The best ramrod thimbles commercially available for British guns are the cast steel English fowler thimbles sold by TOW and others. However, they only come in 3/8" diameter, which is too big for a really slim fowler and not consistent with the originals on which I am basing my build.  I decided to make my own in 5/16" diameter but I wanted nicely styled thimbles with raised borders on the ends, like many originals.  I used a method I learned from Kit Ravenshear many years ago.  I like making thimbles and I am pretty good at it after all these years. 

For this gun, I want the forward thimble to be a bit larger than the others to accommodate a substantial swell in the ramrod.  The other thimbles are to be slightly larger than 5/16" but the forward thimble is to be 23/64".  I want a fairly robust ramrod so it can hold up to loading tight patched round ball as well as bird shot.  The original fowlers I own were clearly set up for bird shot and have very wimpy tapered rods.  I designed a slight compromise to include a bigger rod but not lose any slimness of the gun.  I use a little 3" x 2" steel plate I made years ago to form raised edges on thimbles and bend the tabs.

I used 0.03" thick sheet of mild steel.  The first step is calculating the width and length.  The thimbles are just under 1.5" long so I needed to add a little extra length for the raised borders.  I calculated width figuring they needed to be 5/16" (a little larger actually) and 23/64" and multiplying those dimensions by 3 and then adding 1/2" for 2 1/4" high tabs.  I cut the sheet with shears and then squared the piece up. 
My little forming plate has a 1/16" wide slot for bending the tabs and a 1/16" wide and 1/32" deep groove for forming the raised edges.  I place the flat sheet steel on the plate and line up one end of the thimble with the groove, then punch it in with a cold chisel that has the sharp edge thinned and rounded over. It forms a nice little raised border.  I repeat the process for the other end of the thimble


Then I grind off any excess metal beyond the raised border and proceed to bend the tabs.


When those are formed, I take a proper diameter drill or rod and hammer it down along the middle of the thimble to start forming the pipe.  I go as far as I can before compressing the tabs in my vise around the mandrel.  After forming the tube, I solder the tab together and clean up the ends as well as the tab.  A very clean and attractive thimble that duplicates those on many British fowlers of the period is the result.


Now for the rear ramrod thimble.  I really like the cast steel thimble sold by TOW.  It is historically accurate and attractive, but the 3/8" pipe is too large.  Rather than try to swedge a sheet steel version, I decided to simply cut off the tang from the TOW thimble, reduce the collar to fir my smaller rear thimble, and solder it on.  I made a sheet steel thimble a little longer than the others and then soldered on the tang for the cast thimble.


The result is perfect.  Below is a collection of nice steel thimbles.

More to come,

dave

     


« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 02:07:24 PM by smart dog »
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ddoyle

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2018, 05:37:46 AM »
Huge Thanks Dave.

Offline Curtis

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2018, 06:45:09 AM »
Very nice!  I like the simple tool you made from the 3x2 steel plate, I have to make one of those.  Also I like the idea you had of using the cast skirt for the entry pipe.  Well done Dave!

Curtis
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline SingleMalt

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2018, 12:06:59 PM »
I agree with Curtis, that's a slick idea!
Never drink whisky that isn't old enough to vote.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."- Plato

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2018, 02:32:39 PM »
 Really nice Dave, Thanks. Glad to hear your coming around.

    Tim

n stephenson

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2018, 03:58:13 PM »
Mega Thanks, That little tool is a great idea. I`ll be making one !     Nate

Hemo

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2018, 05:23:03 PM »
Thanks for all this, Dave!  Glad you're feeling better!

Gregg

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2018, 06:48:58 PM »
Necessity is the mother of invention, it is said, and here it is at work.  Wonderful ideas and simple.  Nice job.
I see evidence of heat on your forming plate...wudzat?
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Brian Jordan

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2018, 07:15:54 PM »
Nice tutorial! Mind sharing what grade of steel you used and where you sourced it from?

Thanks!!
Brian
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Online smart dog

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2018, 03:33:14 AM »
Hi,
Taylor, the heat colors come from welding the tab bending slot closed on one end.  That way it won't bend outward under pressure from bending the tab.  Melsdad, the metal sheet is just 1018 mild steel 0.03" thick from a local Vermont supplier (Capital Metals in Montpelier).  You can get similar sheet online.  Forming is difficult with sheet steel >0.03" but silver and brass work well with thicknesses greater than that.

dave
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Joe S

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2018, 05:36:24 AM »
A little bit thinner steel might help. I made some pipes like that with 0.024" (24 gauge) steel, and found it reasonably easy to work with. I annealed the sheet after one run through the forming of the raised edge, as it took me two passes though the die to get them completely formed. Annealing certainly improved things.

The entry pipe is giving me fits though.  I'm using 0.060 (16 gauge) sheet and that stuff is stiff. I may end up following Dave's suggestion and use TOW pipes, but I haven't given up yet.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 05:38:18 AM by Jose Gordo »

Online smart dog

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2018, 02:22:39 PM »
Hi Jose,
Using the cast tang on the sheet steel rear thimble has several advantages.  It is easy to do and the TOW cast tang has a nice historically accurate shape. Second, the tang is of heavier material, which makes it less springy and liable to be dimpled during inletting.  A tang made of the same sheet I used on the thimbles would be very flimsy. The thimbles are quite strong especially with the raised edges but a tang from the same sheet would not be so good.  Finally, the rear thimbles on both of my original fowlers were made with thicker tangs soldered on.  If I was using brass or silver mounts, I would cast the tang in any shape I choose and then solder it on a sheet metal thimble, which is how the rear thimble on my silver mounted gun was made.  The result would look better than a thimble made from one piece of sheet metal.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Joe S

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2018, 03:49:26 PM »
I will follow your advice Dave.  Thanks.

Joe

Online smart dog

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2018, 03:52:27 AM »
Hi,
I inlet the ramrod pipes today.  When I drew my plans I discovered that with my short forearm and 42" barrel, the middle pipe would hit the middle barrel band unless one or the other was positioned far forward or rearward of even spacing relative to the other bands or pipes. Therefore, I decided to overlap the barrel lug and pipe, something I saw once on an original military musket.  It was very simple.  I just file away the middle of the tab on the pipe to clear the barrel lug and used 2 pins to hold the pipe.

The rear thimble went in nicely as did the other thimbles.


Well, here is where I am at.  The stock is trimmed down, barrel and breech are in, and ramrod and pipes done.  You can start to see how slim the gun will be.




Next up is the lock plate and then the butt plate.
dave   
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline SingleMalt

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2018, 12:07:35 PM »
That's really shaping up nicely.
Never drink whisky that isn't old enough to vote.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."- Plato

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2018, 04:36:10 PM »
It's looking very elegant already Dave.

Lovely job!

BTW,

This may interest you.  Just posted today;

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/is-this-a-griffin-musket-t23010.html

Online smart dog

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2018, 07:29:13 PM »
Hi,
Thanks for looking folks.  Richard, the fowling gun in the link was by John Brazier 2.  Brazier was a gunmaker not a barrel maker.  It is a nice take down sporting gun from the 1750s -1760s or so.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2018, 07:40:11 PM »
Dave, when I made my Long Land Pattern Brown Bess, I used a system for attaching pipes and barrel through the same lug with just one pin.  The barrel lugs have two tabs with a space between for the pipe tab.  Another method would have been to offset the barrel lug to allow the pipe tab to mate alongside.
But I have done as you show here too.  Loving this thread.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline Pukka Bundook

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Re: Building an English Fowler
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2018, 08:59:36 PM »
Dave,

What I should have said, was the barrel is" Marked" John Brazier 2, not "By".  My careless way of putting it!