Author Topic: Need some help shooting left (Read 7198 times)

porchdog48 · « **on:** March 06, 2018, 11:33:57 PM »

The gun is a .40 cal. flint that is shooting about 4.5 inches to the left. I have re- crowned the barrel checked it for square , and it stills shoots the same amount to the left. With a .395 ball and .014 patch it is very tight the first 1.5 inches then slides easily down the barrel. Is it possible that the problem is that more should have been cut off the end of the barrel before building? Any help would be appreciated.

Dave

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2018, 11:40:32 PM »

Are you sure it's not the sights?

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2018, 12:58:11 AM »

When you move your sights, split the difference between front and rear sights. Move your front sight to the left and your rear one to the right. None of my .40's will shoot well with a .014" thin patch. Minimum is .018" and .020" is better. Use a starter and start the ball flush with or slightly below the muzzle with one whack of your hand. Once in the bore, the 5" or 6" long rod of your starter with deliver the ball well into the barrel, again with a second whack, so that from there, the ramrod finishes the seating.

Robby · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2018, 02:47:24 AM »

Nothing binding in the barrel channel? Are the barrel lugs slotted? It doesn't tale much.
Robby

porchdog48 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2018, 04:02:16 AM »

OldMntMan: It groups good just have to move front sight one way and rear sight the other way to get it close to center.

Taylor: I think you got me headed in the right direction went to .390 ball and .020 patch. and now can move front sight back to center of the barrel, but still need the rear sight to one side. Pretty sure with load development and playing with patch thickness we should see further improvement.

Robby: The barrel hasn't been pulled as of yet, but will definitely check the barrel pins.

Gentlemen thank you for the advice , and I will post how things workout .

Regards,
Dave

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2018, 04:15:53 AM »

Oh ok. I thought you were saying the barrel has a problem.

Marcruger · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2018, 04:29:41 AM »

I don't want to be the voice of "not so great news", but no one has yet mentioned barrel runout or a bent barrel.

What range are you shooting when it is 4.5" off? How long is the sight radius? If you are 4.5" off at 25 yards, I don't think loads will make a difference.

Did you make the rifle? If so, did you check for runout before building?

Please forgive me if you already know this, but runout is where the bore is not centered within the outside dimensions of the barrel. In other words, the outside of the barrel is pointed at the target, but the hole down the middle isn't.

Makers stamp the barrels so that the runout can be oriented up or down. That is no big deal at all, as the height of the sights will take care of that alignment. The makers' mark usually goes on the bottom flat.

If the runout is side-to-side, you'll end up with the sights not centered on the barrel top flat. In minor runout cases, the adjustment of the sights on the top flat is barely notable. In bad cases, the sights are hanging way off to one side or the other. Another fix is to file the sight notch offset, but that rarely looks good either.

You can check the math this way:

Sight radius (in inches) is to rear sight movement, as the distance to target (in inches) is to the target error in inches. So, for a 30" sight radius, 900" to target, and 4.5" off of aiming point.....
30" x 4.5" divided by 900" equals move the rear sight right by .15 inches. Not a small amount. You'll see that.

30" x 4.5" divided by 1800" (or 50 yards) is logically .075" rear sight movement. See why the distance matters?

I hope this helps a little, and I sincerely hope you do not have a case of runout.

Best wishes, and God Bless, Marc

porchdog48 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2018, 05:08:33 AM »

Marc, The gun was built by Jack Garner and has a 42 inch barrel. I have measured barrel thickness at the bore on all 8 flats with only .003 difference in thickness which I hard time believing after draw filing. The barrel needs pulled and bore check at breech end. It was shooting 4.5 inch off at 25 yards after changing ball diameter and patch thickness it is about 2.5 inches. The part I am have trouble with is the fact that it is very tight the first 1.5 inches in from the muzzle then slides in easily the rest of the way. I will try to get the barrel out tomorrow and look for markings or maker.

Dave

Marcruger · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2018, 05:25:44 AM »

Maybe it is choke-bored? Do you know the maker?

Don Steele · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2018, 12:30:00 PM »

Dave,
Please don't take this wrong, but in an effort to assist, I have to ask:
How have you verified that it's the Rifle that's putting groups that far to the left, and not your shooting technique..??

Bigmon · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2018, 02:31:13 PM »

when shooting, how tite is the group? Yes it is to the left ir right, but itherwise is it a tite group no matter where its hitting?
I had a similar problem and Ed Rayle straightened the barrel and cleaned up the crown. It was shooting the same hole a about 25 yds but I could not bring it any closer than about 2" to the right. Cutting the same hole but 2" right and to move it more the sights would look terrible.
After he was done it is about 1/2" still to the right. It is a 58 cal hunting gun and that might be good enough, but I'll probably ask him to hit it again.
You too might have a bent barrel?

smallpatch · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2018, 06:04:46 PM »

Muzzle tightness is normal. Once you've imparted the rifling to the ball, it should slide down easily. You've fot to get it "in the groove" first.

WadePatton · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2018, 07:02:40 PM »

Quote from: smallpatch on March 07, 2018, 06:04:46 PM

Muzzle tightness is normal. Once you've imparted the rifling to the ball, it should slide down easily. You've fot to get it "in the groove" first.

Yes, you are "cold swaging" the ball/patch into the dimensions of the bore with the first little bit of muzzle. Just like pushing a lead bullet through a sizing die/swager for use in a wheelgun or such.

If the first little bit is _not_ somewhat more difficult than the rest of the way down, then you're using an undersized combo and those generally lead to their own set of problems.

I trust that Mr. Garner put the bbl in properly and am curious as to the resolution when you find it. Also, runout has to be checked out of the stock (and best in a lathe)-and there again was likely oriented in the vertical axis by Mr. Garner-if enough was present when rifled.

Could be bent, some are and that's fixable.

little joe · « **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2018, 09:02:58 PM »

Are you using a bench and not offhand?

Daryl · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2018, 10:20:56 PM »

Are you left or right handed?

porchdog48 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2018, 02:12:39 AM »

Don Steele : This is the only gun that there is a problem, and it is shooting tight groups, but will possibly try to get someone else to shoot it .

Bigmon: The groups are tight just to the left.

Little joe : Shooting from cross sticks with back against door to stop wobble, but will try setting up bench and sand bags.

Daryl: Shoot left handed.

Pulled barrel today no markings anywhere, and barrel pins very tight so will relieve them next. I am not sure on how to check barrel for straightness. I have read about shadows while looking through bore. I have a lathe but not sure what or how I should indicate it.

Dave

Robby · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2018, 03:43:26 AM »

One thing at a time, do the easy stuff first. Like I use to tell my kids, when the car quits along the road, don't start pulling the engine, check the gas gauge.
Robby

Sharpsman · « **Reply #17 on:** March 08, 2018, 06:09:50 PM »

Favor RIGHT!!

Carney Pace · « **Reply #18 on:** March 08, 2018, 07:55:00 PM »

Between my wife and myself we have 4 .40 cal. flintlocks. All of them use .375 ball. 1 likes .024 patch the other 3 like .014 Linnen. 62 gr.of 3f. 20 shots till need to run a patch to clean fouling. Load out of the pouch no short starter.

Carney

little joe · « **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2018, 11:45:46 PM »

Not trying to be smart but , do you have the skill level to do better? My experience is when I blame the rifle I am needing more practice. ( a lot)

OldMtnMan · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09, 2018, 05:10:46 PM »

It's shooting a tight group consistently left. Adjust the sights!!

kudu · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2018, 05:39:42 PM »

I have a .40 that shot exactly as you say same distance every thing. Great groups just left way too far. the Barrel is a Rice. I bought the barrel new and am the builder of the gun. so I called Jason at Rice and he said send it back.
Well a long story shortened I really didn't want to send it back, I mean it had lugs cut in, sights- tang shaped all Browned in a finished gun.
So I flexed/bent the barrel just like a smooth bore and got it on target.
Oh I FORGOT TO MENTION the barrel is 3/4 across the flats
If you do this dont KINK the barrel you need to BOW IT ive seen two fowler /smooth bores "Kinked" by well intentioned folks trying to shift their groups.

Marcruger · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2018, 06:12:37 PM »

Any maker can make a mistake now and again. Also, barrels can get damaged in shipping. Customer service counts, and Jason certainly stands behind the Rice barrels he makes. Best wishes, and God Bless, Marc

Robby · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2018, 04:52:23 PM »

How did you make out porchdog?
Robby

smylee grouch · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2018, 09:01:35 PM »

When you do your testing, make sure your rest or sand bag is level where the gun rests as this will cause your shots to recoil away from the slant if you have one.

News:

Author Topic: Need some help shooting left (Read 7198 times)