What are your loads for your 40 cal Kibler SMR?

[Joe R]

Looking for a place to get started on shooting a 40 cal Kibler SMR that I recently completed and I thought I had seen where someone recently posted a load for theirs. I can’t seem to find the post (if it exists and I’m not confusing it with another post like smallpatch’s excellent results for his 45.) Thanks in advance for any help.

[Frank]

395 ball 40 grains 3f and a .015 patch with spit or track of the wolf mink oil.

[moleeyes36]

45 grains of fffg powder, .395 ball, 10 ounce denim patch, Mr. Flintlock Lube worked well in the one I built for someone.  Each gun can be a little different, but something like that would probably be a good starting point to work up a load for your rifle.

Mole Eyes

[thelongrifle]

50 gr fff,.010 pillow ticking patch,wonder wad over powder .

[thelongrifle]

Add a .390 ball

[WadePatton]

45 grains of fffg powder, .395 ball, 10 ounce denim patch, Mr. Flintlock Lube worked well in the one I built for someone.  Each gun can be a little different, but something like that would probably be a good starting point to work up a load for your rifle.
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Mole Eyes

As Mole Eyes says above.

Every gun tends to be a little different because of reasonable machining tolerances in bbl manufacturing, and also each process down the line is less precise than that. One "size" rarely fits all when seeking best performance.  Same as in handloading for moderns--where even consecutive serial number guns most often prefer different loadings of the same components for ultimate accuracy.

The trouble with copy-catting ML loads is that the actual precise dimensions of bbl, ball, patch (and material qualities), bbl installation (cuts and tensions) will all vary somewhat (not so much with Jim's kits, but there are tolerances).  And then the maker/lot/age/ of your powder, and the wildly variable choice of lubes-and how they are applied simply add up to a confuse the loading that your buddies ("identical") gun LOVES to the point that it's only a mediocre load in your gun.

Sure, start with a copied load, but be sure to tweak it to work BEST for your gun.

Also, this is a bit less critical to the non-competitive shooter, but ANY gun is more fun when it hits where you think it's pointed -- well they all hit where they (the bores) are actually pointed (after the wind and gravity have had their say)).

[retired fella]

Be sure to "read" your patches for evidence of blowby, burnout, or holes in the material.  This is all part of the fun in working up a load.

[Mike Brooks]

Kibler guarantees the accuracy no matter what load, you don't even need to have you eyes open when you shoot..

[Darkhorse]

Some barrels can be fickle. What this means is you must shoot your rifle a lot to find it's best loads. And all that might change when you get the barrel broken in.
My B Rice .40 shoots tight groups with 30 grains of 3fg and a .395 ball. Then it starts to open some. Finally at 50 yards and a 60 grain charge it's back to shooting sub inch groups.
.018 Pillow Ticking patch generally works well and Crisco, Bore Butter, Spit, Track's Mink Oil and Lehigh Valley have all worked well. LeHigh is the most accurate.

[hanshi]

My .40 GM barrel loves 40 grains of 3F and a .022" canvas duck patch.  30 grains of 2F does nicely at 25 yds.  Lube, well it's TOW mink oil in the bush and Hoppes BP lube at the range.  So far only using a .390" ball.  Out to 100 yards 55 or 60 grains of 3F does very well.  Will be trying some .40" ball and another slightly under that.

[smallpatch]

.395 ball, .020 patch, start at 40g FFFg, work up from there in 5g increments.
40's will shoot very flat, so I like to load them a little hot. They are pretty economical at that.
Use a liquid lube, and you can shoot all day without cleaning.
You don't need any over powder wad if you use a tight fitting patch that won't blow through.

[scottmc]

What is the rate of twist?

[Mike Brooks]

Most accurate .40 I ever shot took a .395, .020 patch and 65gr 3fff.

[Joe R]

Kibler guarantees the accuracy no matter what load, you don't even need to have you eyes open when you shoot..

Dang, I thought Kibler just guaranteed they’d build themselves... I didn’t realize they’d also take care of the shooting part.

All kidding aside scottmc asks a good question. I should not assume everyone knows what the specs on the barrel are based on my general question. The barrel on the Kibler SMR should be a Rice, 1:48 twist with 0.016” deep round bottom grooves.

Thanks for the responses so far.

[Don Adams]

My most accurate load for .40 cal rice barrel - round bottom rifling - .395 with a .018 (pillow ticking patch) and 60 grains of 3FFFg Goex with Mr. Flintlock lube.

[Daryl]

THAT sounds like a perfectly normal accuracy load, Don. My .40 liked 65gr. GOEX3F just a bit better, when using a slippery-oil lubed patch.
It shot identically with 75gr. 2F GOEX - same velocity, too within 20fps - mid 2,200's.
Yet- with a water based lube, 55gr. to 60gr. 3F just just as well, but of course much slower, high 1,700's to low 1,800's.
 

[Don Adams]

Daryl, I've never tried 2F in the .40 yet. I might have to try it.

[Daryl]

Don- in both the .45 and .40, I developed loads in both granulations so that if I ran out of one, I'd likely have the other.

There was no difference in cleanliness of shooting - virtually identical. I have never found one powder to foul more than any

other, with properly balanced loads.

[Darkhorse]

Things must be different down here. I tried 2fg in my Rice .40 and will not ever try it again. After about 2 shots the ball couldn't be seated without a mallet there was so much fouling.
But, that was about 15 years ago when I had just finished the rifle and was doing initial load work. Atmospheric conditions probably contributed to the problem. The barrel also took a lot of shooting to break it in. I was surprised to find it cut patches at the muzzle and had a sharp spot down in the barrel itself. The only lube that shot well without a lot of cleaning was LeHigh Valley.
But that was then, now the barrel is slick as oil and I can get about any lube to work. Still, this barrel takes plenty of shooting to find what it likes best. I am working on some Turkey loads now at 50 yards. Years ago I shot a few groups at 100 yards loading 60 grs. of 3fg, a .395 round ball, .018 patch, and LHV lube. Groups were around 3" and I was happy. The other day I shot several loads at 50 yards and the 60 grain load shot 3 into less than an inch. I'm going to work on this load some more and also increase the powder charge in 5 grain increments just to see the effect. I've not done much shooting from 60 grains and up, so it's new territory.
At 25 to 30 yards it likes 30 grs. 3fg, .015 patch, .395 round ball and any lube.
Attached is a 10 shot group at 25 yards. My eyes are now past 65 years old and sometimes it's tough to get definition when I aim but I still manage to do OK. I'm not really happy with this group but somehow it managed to tear enough paper to make a one hole group.
Unlike a Kibler right hander catered rifle, I actually had to put effort into building the rifle and finding a couple of loads it likes. And I'm very picky about what I think is an accurate load.
And by the way, I have a .54 Colraine barrel that will outshoot this Rice any day, all day. Premium barrel or not.

[Mike Brooks]

SMR?  Soggy Munchkin Rifle?

[Daryl]

I've found over the years that about any load will shoot into small groups at 25 yards. Indeed, most smoothbores will as well

and with only one sight, a fine sight being taken down the top breech flat.

Shooting at 50 yards or further out, is where the challenge and 'finding the right load' comes in.

I hardly think anything is different "up here" than "down there".  65gr. 3F, 75gr. 2F with my combination made for 2,240fps to 2,260fps,

identical accuracy of 1/2" 5-shot groups at 50yards. My loads were somewhat tighter fitting, that's all & the gun shot worse with reduced

powder charges when using LeHighValley lube.  My .395"mould cast .398"x.398" and the .400" mould cast .400" x .400". I used both of these

 balls with .019" pocket drill and with the 10 ounce denim I measured at .-0225", along with the railroad ticking I measured at .0235".  3/8" rifle's

rod worked just fine for loading. My .40 was a Goodoien barrel, with wide grooves narrow lands.  My GM .45 barrel, loaded similarly, but with a

 .445" ball, had grooves a bit wider than the lands, still good. It liked 75gr. 3F and 85gr. 2F - also making the same speed of just over 2,200fps. 

Slower (smaller) loads did not shoot well at 50yards.  At this level, both rifles seemed to shoot their best with the combinations I had tested with.

All of this was again, with LieHighValey lube - both the newer Track's recipe and the new "older" recipe.  In my rifles, they shot identically.

With water based lube, spit or WWWF+ oil, both rifles would shoot the same with 10gr. less powder. I figured this was due to the water

 based lubes not really being a very good lubricants. However, shoot well, they did.

If these loads seem high (I know they do) just look at the loads the chunk and plank shooters are using. Those guys are accuracy nuts and demand the

best accuracy from their guns.  If 40gr. gave them the match winning accuracy in a .40, or 55gr. in a .50, do you not think they would be using 40gr. or 55gr.?

They do not as those loads will not give them the accuracy they demand and need to be competitive.  Just to be competitive demands bigger charges. Just

shooting offhand so if doesn't matter?  Yes it does - take you 'accuracy' capability, then add to the outside of that on 2 sides, the group size your rifle is capable of at that

 range That is the smallest group you can shoot at 50yards.

If you are capable of shooting 2" offhand at 50 yards but your rifle is capable of  2" (5shots), your group could be about 8" for 5 shots.

If you are capable of shooting 2" offhand at 50 yards but your rifle is capable of 1/2"(5shots), then your group could be about 3"for 5 shots.