Author Topic: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle  (Read 3020 times)

JAPA1

  • Guest
"J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« on: March 07, 2018, 11:32:04 PM »
Thoughts or clues are appreciated:
 
I have been going through some hand me down rifles (literally every rifle in a family that hunted the PA woods since America asked the last King to leave).  One Long rifle, looks to be 45-55 caliber.  It has a full stock and an octagon barrel. The top flat on the barrel between the lock and the rear site is marked "J. Lord."  The percussion lock itself is marked "Henry Parker Warranted" and has a scene with what looks like two pheasants or birds in a field behind the hammer and scroll work on the lock and hammer. It is perfectly fitted and fully functional.  On the other side of the lock is a small brass plate that appears to say "WL Hemphill ... maybe followed by NY in smaller font." It has brass hardware but the brass is not ornate.  There is no patch box. The butt is a slightly exaggerated crescent with a longer "hook" at the top than the bottom (there is the brass butt plate that wraps about 1/4 of the way up the stock top and bottom).   The stock has what looks like a cheek pad (its carved out of the wood) It has two horizontal cuts running the length of the check pad.  I would describe the stock as on the thin side (not thick like the stock on my old and well worn Brown Bess - a hand me down from the Connecticut Yankee side).  The wood is dark brown probably plain walnut.

The second long rifle looks older and is much more ornate. Its a bit longer than the first rifle.  It has an ornate brass patch box and engraved hardware.  The wood looks like maple with a lot of grain, light in color. Almost tiger maple. It is a full stock with a brass nose cap. The butt is not a shot gun style but not really a crescent either. Size wise the stock is light or thin not wide like the Brown Bess. It has a brass butt plate.  The percussion lock is ill fitted to the hole (clearly a replacement) and is marked J, Baker. It is fully functional. The barrel is octagon.  I suspect this is the oldest of the group and was originally a flint lock.  It too looks to be 45-55 caliber (the rim on a 44 mag shell is the bore size).

The last percussion gun is a smooth bore, looks larger than a 12 gauge.  Its has tiger maple wood.  The butt is basically straight and fairly thick, not like the other two, more Brown Bess.  It is a half stock.  The barrel is round.  It looks to be the youngest of the three. The percussion lock is well fitted and fully functional. It has ornate brass hard ware but no patch box.  Everything is engraved, not super ornate but sort of well done. Almost woodland or floral designs.  Even the screws have lines radiating from the center like a sun burst. The lock is engraved but has no marks.  The only mark is in the center of the top of the barrel half an inch from the stock.  It looks like a flag or sort of like a map of Texas.  Clearly it is stamped in as a mark, just hard to describe.

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18915
Re: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2018, 11:48:44 PM »
Can you add pictures?
Andover, Vermont

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13235
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2018, 11:50:10 PM »
Can you add pictures?
That would be my thought as well.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

JAPA1

  • Guest
Re: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 12:10:45 AM »
I click add images and get to the google chrome upload page but it just freezes.  Tried to paste here no luck. Once I figure it out I can post pictures on each point.

JAPA1

  • Guest
Re: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 12:16:46 AM »
Well its adding urls that I hope link to pictures of rifle #1.







JAPA1

  • Guest
Re: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2018, 12:17:51 AM »
Rifle #2






JAPA1

  • Guest
Re: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 12:18:33 AM »
Gun #3:






JAPA1

  • Guest
Re: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 12:19:39 AM »
After looking at some of the rifles on this site, mine look simple like the folk who owned them.

JAPA1

  • Guest
Re: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 12:50:35 AM »
From the online text of "American gun makers including Supplement of American gun makers":

LORD, J. — Lancaster Co., Pa., 1830-1855. Master workman; flintlock
and percussion Kentucky rifles.

Some place I noted what appears to be the same man making guns in Schuylkill County (formerly part of Berks County).

JAPA1

  • Guest
Re: "J. Lord" Pennsylvania Rifle
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 11:19:28 PM »
Another source has:

J. Lord as a gun maker in Orwigsburg (1842-1855) in Schuylkill County today but formerly Berks County.

JAPA1

  • Guest
Re: Johan Neff rifle?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2018, 05:33:02 AM »
It's a wild guess but the middle rifle I posted pictures with the patch box may have been made by gun smith Johanes Neff.  The rifle came to me through the Neff family. Pure guess. I can post pictures if anyone thunks they help.  Thoughts are appreciated. My notes on the rifle:

56 to 56 1/2 overall length
41  1/2 barrel
Trigger guard 8" pinned front and back, tang screw through stock
1" over trigger
1/2 rear finial 5/8th from
Wrist 1 1/2" tall less than 1 " wide

Maple tiger or almost certainly faux tiger, full stock:
      No carving except to create the cheek pad and two parallel lines in the cheek           
      pad.

The stock is decidedly not Roman. Looks very much like per-1800 Lancaster style.

brass end cap

Brass trigger guard not really a hook. Looks like a Bivins or other Lancaster style trigger guard (1750-1790).

4 piece nine screw brass patch box:
    Scalloped solid sides plates on the patch box three screws per side
    Almost a mild whale tail finial
     Finial is secured by three screws
     Fair amount of engraving
     Release button is on the top extension of the butt plate towards the rear of the stock       
     where the butt plate wraps around.

The curve of the butt plate looks like what Kauffman describes as that used by gun smiths in Lancaster county in the 1790s. It wraps around the bottom and top. 1 3/4 widest butt 4 1/2 tall

There are no marks on the barrel to identify the maker. It's full octagon of  41 1/2 inches. It now looks to be smooth.  Using a caliper Barrel is .89 " at breach .81 at muzzle maybe .79-.80 middle. Not sure it's really swamped.

There is no lock plate. It looks like its just a large screw head but it's flush no screw slot

The "J. baker " lock is percussion and clearly does not fit the hole or the quality detailed mortise work. I assume this gun was originally a flintlock.

Conclusion:
Originally flintlock pre-1830
Four part decorated patch box suggests 1775-1825
Solid side plates suggest pre-1800
Butt plate curve etc suggests Lancaster 1790s
Trigger guard may suggest early flint rifle 1750-1790
Maple stock supports PA
Best guess 1790s likely Lancaster Pa. but came to me through Neff family, so maybe Johanes Neff.