Lock repair...?

[Bigmon]

Have a lock for my Officers Fusil that when the hammer screw is tightened it pulls the hammer tight to the lock plate, which of course will not do.
I attach a photo of what I believe is the real problem, that the underside of the hammer hole has metal missing and there is not much there to peen or prick with a punch in an attempt to tighten the hole.
Any ideas of how to repair this would be very welcome???
Maybe someone is a good repairman and would take on the job?
I have a mig welder and could add some metal in this area but don't know if I could then reshape the hole?
I do not want to ruin this.  I don't know where I would get a replacement???
Thanks

[chubby]

I would fit a piece of square key stock to fit that hole and melt low temp solder or pewter to fill the gaps and gently file for flat and square. may be worth a try!   Chubby

[Hungry Horse]

The metal on the hammer could probably be moved enough to tighten the fit on the tumbler. But, it appears in the picture that the shoulder on the tumbler doesn’t extend through the plate far enough to produce the clearance you need to make the cock function properly.
 Who made this gun? It looks pretty rough in the picture, with obvious pitting on the face of the plate.

  Hungry Horse

[deepcreekdale]

I agree with Hungry Horse. That tumbler appears flush with the outside surface. Maybe a really good file and polish job in the inner surface would give you a little more clearance? If it was my lock, I would add some metal to the inside of the tumble hole in the cock with my gas welder and refile to square. Not much of a job, I have done it several times when there is not enough metal to peen the hole tight

[Bigmon]

Thanks all for the replies.  Since I posted this I been looking the lock over.  Yer right about the shoulder on the tumbler.  I was thinking of taking some off the outside of the lock plate?  Maybe some off both inside and outside?  The shoulder does just barley protrude from the plate on the tip edge but not on the bottom edge
Yer also right about it being rough made.  Stuff don't show up until I start tinkering with it.  But this isn't tinkering, it need a repair.
I just don't know if I am capable.  I want this to function perfectly or I don't want it.
I was on here a month or so ago trying to determine who built this?  I thought it was a Rifle Shop kit built by a local named Phil Craverner.  Others on here said they thought it was from North Star West.  I don't know if from a kit by them or a finished oiece.
It is pretty obvious that who ever built the lock it was not well done.
Also, what got me into this project was I discovered that the lock rocked badly in the mortice.  When I was fixing that I found this problem.
None of you guys interested in fixing this?

[Adrie luke]

The best is to find somebody who will fill it with MIG welding.
The easiest way is to make a thin ring for it. [see example].
You can solder it.

[rich pierce]

The stated problem is that the cock pulls tight against the plate because  the square portion of the tumbler is not sufficiently above the plane of the lockplate. Adding metal to the hole in the cock will do nothing as stated above.

Fix or replace the tumbler or file down the lockplate.

[B.Barker]

A good tig welder could fix you up.

[Telgan]

How about a square shaped shim on the end of the tumbler shaft - drilled for the cock screw.  It might keep the back of the cock up off the lock plate surface. You would need to have a tight fit of the cock though. Tig would probably be a better long term fix

[Hungry Horse]

You are looking at major repair to get this lock running right, and asking about “ stock spackle” in another thread. If these are needed on the same gun, you likely have a gun not worth the time and expense required to repair it. This does not sound like the products sold by the businesses you mentioned. You may have been sold a blind mule so to speak.

  Hungry Horse

[Black Hand]

The stated problem is that the cock pulls tight against the plate because  the square portion of the tumbler is not sufficiently above the plane of the lockplate. Adding metal to the hole in the cock will do nothing as stated above.

Fix or replace the tumbler or file down the lockplate.

Rich,
I appears that both might need to be done. The shoulder of the tumbler shaft seems to be imprinted into the cock which suggests it is very soft. Though the most direct approach would be to file down the lockplate until there is sufficient clearance, it may not solve the problem if the tumbler screw is screwed down too far.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You could reduce the thickness of the tumbler on the surface that bears against the inside of the plate, allowing the tumbler to protrude further through the plate.  1/32" would do it.  Of course, then you SHOULD reduce the base on the tumbler bridle and the scear too, so that everything travels in the correct plane inside the lock.

[Bigmon]

Thanks to all for the good suggestions. If some folks can build a complete lock I am sure this can be fixed.  Just not sure how , that;s why I was asking.
As to what caused the lock trouble it appears that it was a bad fit to begin with and then perhaps it was continued to be used a little and just worn a little looser.
I think I could shim it but that's not the fix I want.  I do think this was a quality kit, but just not a quality assemble, but still worth the trouble.
These guns were not cheap 20 years ago and I just saw one on this very sight for sale at around $1200.00, and it did sell I believe, though I don't know for how much.
Thanks again to all

[Black Hand]

Looks like a NSW Officers model.

[Bigmon]

As such, would it not be well worth repairing?

[WKevinD]

I know it's not correct but did you ever consider a thin teflon or nylon washer?

Kevin

[davec2]

Bigmon,

I see two good options that will effect a professional and permanent repair..... 

Option 1.  Take the tumbler to someone with TIG welding skill and add metal to the shoulders on the square shank.  True up the round diameter again and re-file the square to fit the cock.  A good TIG welder could add metal just at the shoulder leaving most of the round and square portions of the tumbler shank alone making it easy to get both the round and square sections back into shape.  Now re-harden and draw the repaired tumbler.

Option 2.  Make a new tumbler, harden and draw.

If it were me, I would do Option 1 first and only option 2 if Option 1 failed to produce the desired result.  Personally, I would not use a torch or a MIG weld.  A TIG could placed a small amount of steel just where you need it.  Both a torch and a MIG weld would require much more extensive rework of the tumbler after welding.  I do all three types of welding and TIG has the definite advantage here.  (I also use laser, electron beam, torsion, and explosive welding techniques...none of which would help here.)

[Marcruger]

I believe Brad Emig at Cabin Creek Muzzleloaders is known for lock work and repair.  It may not be cheap, but he has a fine reputation.  God Bless,   Marc

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have a problem with, "it may not be cheap".  If Bigmon can't do it himself, he has to have someone else with the skill, courage, etc. to do it.  No matter what it costs, it will correct the issue.  The other option is to do nothing so the gun is useless.  How much is that worth?  Would it be cheaper to have it fixed or throw it out?  Whatever it costs is a good deal!!  I'm sick of people looking for cheap.  I guess you found my trigger.

[Bigmon]

Thanks very much to all, I appreciate all the ideas and advice.
If I thought myself capable of this I'd give it a try.
But there are those that this is easy for, have the right tools and the talent.
I'd just as soon pay someone with experience as buy the tools, then have to learn how to use the tools and then do the job with results questionable.  Then have the tools but never use again.
Regards and thanks again

[Mark Elliott]

Personally,   I would go with DaveC's approach.   

[Gaeckle]

Simple solution is to make a brass bushing that fits over the round part of the tumbler shaft and is just a smidge higher than the square shoulder of the tumbler. The hole in the plate would need to be enlarged to accept the bushing. May even act as a bearing. Should be able to do it with a drill press. Just a thought.

[Marcruger]

"I have a problem with, "it may not be cheap".  If Bigmon can't do it himself, he has to have someone else with the skill, courage, etc. to do it.  No matter what it costs, it will correct the issue.  The other option is to do nothing so the gun is useless.  How much is that worth?  Would it be cheaper to have it fixed or throw it out?  Whatever it costs is a good deal!!  I'm sick of people looking for cheap.  I guess you found my trigger."

Hello Taylor, I believe that what I wrote did not convey my meaning, and I apologize good sir.  I agree with you totally.

I was nudging the original poster towards someone who I felt could fix the lock the RIGHT way.   I was trying to say to the gentleman that Brad's time needs to be compensated correctly.  How I wrote that was poor.

I am a firm believer that artists and craftsman in the longrifle field are badly undercompensated.  Like teachers, y'all do it for the love of the endeavor rather than monetary rewards.

I agree, that lock needs to be done right or the gun is fairly useless. I tell folks all the time, "Don't scrimp on the barrel or the lock.  If you scrimp, it will be at your peril and misery down the line." 

Again, my apologies for not clearly stating what I was thinking Taylor, and for causing you distress.

Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

 

[Bob Roller]

I have a problem with, "it may not be cheap".  If Bigmon can't do it himself, he has to have someone else with the skill, courage, etc. to do it.  No matter what it costs, it will correct the issue.  The other option is to do nothing so the gun is useless.  How much is that worth?  Would it be cheaper to have it fixed or throw it out?  Whatever it costs is a good deal!!  I'm sick of people looking for cheap.  I guess you found my trigger.

I tell these folks that think anything for a muzzle loader must be
cheap is "If you want Cheeeep,get a carton of baby chickens and
you'll have Cheeeep all day long".In this area where we live, I
know of ONE gunsmith who is mostly a modern gun man and he
can't be reached by phone.

Bob Roller

[Dave Marsh]

Send it to Brad Emig.  He is excellent at rebuilding locks and he is well worth whatever the charge is.  I have had him do 3 or 4 as I do not trust myself to be a lock repair/tune up guy.  You can have him fix the issue and go through the whole lock as well.  Your lock will function perfectly and the gun will go off every time.  It will be the best money you ever spent.

Dave