Daryl is right.....yet again. Loading method.

[bones92]

Can any winter-worthy windshield wiper fluid be used?   Also, roughly what ratio of wiper fluid and Neetsfoot oil do you recommend?

I have found that not wiping and using a fairly wet patch (typically, I'm using Ballistol, but I probably don't use enough) I don't have a lot of fouling problems, and none of the misfires caused by pushing fouling down while wiping.


This makes me want to dust off my ideas for a wiping method that pulls fouling out without pushing it down on the breech plug.

[Daryl]

Bones, there are some WWWF's out there that have stuff like Rain-X in them. I don't think I'd use those, but not sure why.

As has been noted here before, we are simply using an alcohol/water mix that has a die in it to make it blue.

I put about 2oz. oil per quart. Shake the $#*! out of it, them pour it over my pre-cuts.

I do not use store bought patches. I find them to be .003" to .004" thinner than advertised, thus .018" are .015" by my measurement.

These, with a .005" undersized ball shoot quite cleanly (no wiping) however they are too thin for my rifles to shoot well, so I

purchase cloth and cut my own.

Methods for cutting patches:  Arch Punches or  Bearing races and large Ball Bearings. A sharpened hole saw in a drill press as well, but be sure

to have a system for holding the cloth.  Loose cloth will be grabbed by the spinning tool and break your finger or arm.

Patches can also be cut square from srtips of cloth.

[Marcruger]

"My biggest issue so far has been store bought patches which aren't lubed enough to keep things soft enough."

My biggest issue with store bought pre-lubed patches is that they regularly blow apart.  Either cheap, loose-weave cloth or the lube breaks down the patches with time.  Or both.  I have a bag full of useless patches I tried.  Yeech. 

I found that the plain heavy "canvas" from The Minute-Men suits me very well.  Never burns through, and you cannot see sunlight through the weave.  Great stuff.  Not cheap, but it doesn't work "cheap" either!  You get what you pay for.  I would stay away from their Teflon, but that is just based on my experiences.  Others may disagree. 

If I am at the range, the wet-lube Hoppe's BlackPowder works great.  A little slipperier than Lehigh Valley in my rifle.  For hunting or times when it will be loaded longer, I would use Mink Oil from TOTW as it will not soak the powder over time and corrupt it.

Thank you again Daryl for what you have shared with us over the years.  You rock!     

Hope this helps someone.  Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

[Black Hand]

Well this makes sense too.

My biggest issue so far has been store bought patches which aren't lubed enough to keep things soft enough.

I would melt more lube into store-bought patches before use.

Eventually got tired of wasting money - bought pillow ticking, cut and lubed my own. For the price paid for a couple packages of patches, I bought enough material to make hundreds of patches and still have most of it left....

[heelerau]

Darryl,
         never thought of using a ball race and a large ball bearing to cut patches. Do you strike the ball with a copper hammer or some other such safe one?

Cheers

Gordon

[m1garand_man]

I haven't had any burn through with anything I have used but with a .590 ball my rifle prefers a .015 patch. They seem to shoot the best groups so far. The .018 pillow ticking ones are not a great. It could be a lube issue. I'll probably soak them in my bees wax, coconut oil lube that I have had a lot of luck either lately. I melt the stuff down and pour it over a stack of patches in a bowl until they are submerged. Once bubbles stop coming out they are saturated. Yes they are a bit over saturated and leave grease at the muzzle when loading but that doesn't seem to hurt anything. The big deal is the fouling is soft.

[Daryl]

Hi Gordon, there are maybe 4 or 5 of us (up here) who use or have used a ball bearing race and a large ball bearing for cutting patches. I do not know whose idea it was initially - likely a heavy

equipment (CAT) operator back in the 80's came up with it - been around for a long time.

I usually take a 'new to me' race and run the opening against the grinding wheel of my bench grinder. The high speed stone spins the race and sharpens it to remove the rounded inner 'edge'.

I find it lasts just about a year's use before needing a re'sharpening.

Lots of guys don't do that and merely hit the ball bearing a little harder.  I set the bearing race on a hard flat surface, as in the large square anvil of an old 6" bench vice I broke removing a rifle

 barrel some time back.

The hard surface eliminates any energy absorption & gives a nice clean cut.  I use a standard 16 ounce claw hammer on the bearing.  It does O damage to the bearing and has NEVER caused any

problems, for any of us, regardless of supposed dangers.  Between us, we have cut many thousands, perhaps tens of thousands patches using the bearing races, over the last 40 years.

The only 'trouble' with the bearing race and ball bearing, is cutting only one patch at a time.  However, it takes only a few minutes to cut 50 patches, once you get the rhythm going.

[Mike from OK]

Hi Gordon, there are maybe 4 or 5 of us (up here) who use or have used a ball bearing race and a large ball bearing for cutting patches. I do not know whose idea it was initially - likely a heavy

equipment (CAT) operator back in the 80's came up with it - been around for a long time.

I usually take a 'new to me' race and run the opening against the grinding wheel of my bench grinder. The high speed stone spins the race and sharpens it to remove the rounded inner 'edge'.

I find it lasts just about a year's use before needing a re'sharpening.

Lots of guys don't do that and merely hit the ball bearing a little harder.  I set the bearing race on a hard flat surface, as in the large square anvil of an old 6" bench vice I broke removing a rifle

 barrel some time back.

The hard surface eliminates any energy absorption & gives a nice clean cut.  I use a standard 16 ounce claw hammer on the bearing.  It does O damage to the bearing and has NEVER caused any

problems, for any of us, regardless of supposed dangers.  Between us, we have cut many thousands, perhaps tens of thousands patches using the bearing races, over the last 40 years.

The only 'trouble' with the bearing race and ball bearing, is cutting only one patch at a time.  However, it takes only a few minutes to cut 50 patches, once you get the rhythm going.

Hate to be a burden Daryl... But as I've grown older I have become more of a visual learner. Any chance you have a few pictures to help me get the gist of your instructions?

Or a link to a previous post on the matter?

Mike

[Mike from OK]

Never mind Daryl... I should've scrolled completely through the thread before asking. Sorry about that.

Mike

[Mike from OK]

I picked up an 5/8" arch punch at a flea market a while back. I tried cutting a patch with it but the results were less than stellar, the punch could use some touch up. I may keen up the edge and try again.

A 5/8" patch might be a hair big for a .32 rifle, but should be serviceable.

A nickel works fairly well for trace and cut. But that is some kind of a labor and time intensive method.

Mike

[m1garand_man]

Anyone else ever have issues with fouling swelling up in high humidity over a period of a half hour or so? I noticed that this weekend while shooting. I fired 6 shots and let the gun sit and when I whent to load the 7th a long while later I hit some rough patches of fouling while ramming. After swabbing I was back to normal for the 8th shot. I can fire nearly indflefinately with out swabbing as long ass I don't take a long break.

[Daryl]

After a while, the fouling from the last shot will dry and become crunchy.  Loading through that will cause a change in barrel condition and thus likely not as accurate as

if loaded right away after the last shot.  Most target shooters, ie: chunk and plank wipe their bores out between shots.  There is at least 5 minutes and

or 15 minutes between shots in these events, thus to maintain an even bore condition, they clean between shots. Some guys think it improves their accuracy.

if comparing to loading a crunchy bore, that is quite likely.  If loading immediately after shooting, I do not believe the cleaning helps anything - at least that is what

my testing showed.

I tried cleaning between shots in a couple of my rifles over the years & oding accuracy tests comparing the two methods. I did not achieve any better accuracy

than if I shot "dirty", without cleaning. Thus, for me, it seemed a lot of work for no benefit.

I find loading what for me in a dirty bore, is no more difficult that loading a clean one - they load virtually incidentally, unless I am shooting a small bore

like my old .32 or newer .36 with Mink Oil. These load easier after the first shot & for the next 50 or so shots, than the first shot did. This might be due to residual WD40

in the bore and not liking the mink oil. After the first shot, which strikes centre, btw, loading is easier for the next whack of shots. No starter is needed for this little bore using

a .350" ball and .022" patch in the .360" bore. Virtually pure lead tiny balls forms easily into the muzzle with just a bit of pressure from a choked up rod.

Mike - I take it you saw the patch material laying on the race.  For cutting patches with an arch punch, it needs to be sharp.  If you go to a plastics shop and buy a piece of 2" thick UHMW or HDPE

about 8 or 10" square for a cutting block, you will be much happier with the arch punch.  I have been using just such a piece of Poly for a number of years - cut thousands of patches on it. Still

working fine.  5/8" sounds OK for a .32.  I was using 7/8" arch punch and they work fine in .32 and now .36. It punches them out at .850" or there abouts. My .32 was re-barreled into a .36 and

those patches still work fine. They are just a tich bigger than a nickle.

[hanshi]

I know that I'd never heard of cutting patches with a ball bearing and a race.  In thinking about it I can't visualize how it works.  I just do the "low tech" method of cutting a strip of material and then cutting it into squares.  I tried the arc punch method without much success.

As for patches, I much prefer mattress ticking over pillow ticking.  It compresses to .018" to about .019" or .020".  I use it in certain guns/applications.  But even better is canvas duck.  It compresses to around .022" and it is TOUGH.  Fired patches often show little or no sign of having been fired.  Many of them are still completely white and reusable.  It doesn't burn through or tear although the edges are frayed like all patches.

[Mike from OK]

I'll give it a try Daryl.

Like I said I bought that punch at a flea market and the edge needs touched up. I figure I can chuck it in my lathe and clean it up.

I bought a leather working kit a few months back. Included was, for lack of a better term, a cutting board. It isn't very big, perhaps 6" x 6", and should serve the purpose for testing.

Thanks for the advice.

Mike

[Mike from OK]

I know that I'd never heard of cutting patches with a ball bearing and a race.  In thinking about it I can't visualize how it works.  I just do the "low tech" method of cutting a strip of material and then cutting it into squares.  I tried the arc punch method without much success.

As for patches, I much prefer mattress ticking over pillow ticking.  It compresses to .018" to about .019" or .020".  I use it in certain guns/applications.  But even better is canvas duck.  It compresses to around .022" and it is TOUGH.  Fired patches often show little or no sign of having been fired.  Many of them are still completely white and reusable.  It doesn't burn through or tear although the edges are frayed like all patches.

I too was having trouble visualizing Daryl's method. But as soon as I saw the pictures he posted, it all came together. Check this out...



Fast and effective.

Mike

[hanshi]

OK, now I see.  Where should I look to acquire a race and appropriate ball bearing?  Also, All I have is an inexpensive bench drill press; so can this be used to somehow "sharpen" the race?

That is surprisingly fast and easy; plus it makes perfect patches.

[Mike from OK]

To me, finding all the appropriate pieces is the hard part. Bearings are cheap and widely available but you would have to do a tad bit of homework to find the correct size race... Then find a suitable hardened steel ball.

Sharpening without a lathe might be tough too. Easiest thing might be to hit up your local machine shop.

Mike

[Mike from OK]

It's chilly, windy, and pouring down rain here. But I just went out and did an experiment in the carport...

I had a 7/8" steel ball rolling around in my tool chest and my 5/8" arch punch. I took a piece of pillow ticking out and played around. I could lay the plow ticking over the ball and put the punch over it and smack it with the hammer and punch out a patch.  I was able to punch out 10 or 12 dime-sized patches in a minute or so.

Probably not real good for the arch punch, but it should suffice until I can procure an appropriate sized race.

A few of the patches required more than one tap of the hammer and some are oval shaped. The punch isn't razor sharp... And I may have pulled more across one axis of the material than the other resulting in the oval shape.

I got this ticking from my mother. She worked in a garment factory when I was a boy and always brought home leftover yardage and sewed clothing and other stuff for us. It's heavy American made ticking and mics at .022"... Tough stuff.

Wish the weather would clear off so I could go try out the new patches. Lol

Mike

[Mike from OK]

A pic of the tools and results...




Mike

[Black Hand]

Just rip & cut square patches. Hundreds can be made in very little time....

[Daryl]

The ball must be larger than the hole, of course. The smaller the ball is in relation to the hole, the larger the patch will turn out due to the curvature of the ball, of course.  I hold the ball on both sides, hitting it in the middle - I've yet to hit my finger or thumb when cutting patches, however sooner or later I expect to be distracted when the hammer is coming down and it will be ouch - capitol letters or small letters "ouch".

The arch punches are much faster, of course about any thickness of layers can be cut each time. I usually run 5 to 10 layers. The less layers, the closer together you can get the holes, thus less waste.
The bearing race and ball bearing waste less cloth as you can get the holes very close together.

When making large sizes, the waste between the holds is usually about right for a .32 or .36 rifle patch. Snip, snip, snip with sharp scissors and there ya go, less waste again.

[rollingb]

Just rip & cut square patches. Hundreds can be made in very little time....

👍 That is what I do too,.... and it's worked well for the last 49 years. 

[JBJ]

Just wanted to share what i have been doing to cut patches using a home brewed cutter. The cutter seen in the pic was made using a large socket picked up for less than a dollar at the local flea market. I selected a socket that would yield a smooth interior after using a boring bar in a lathe to remove the flats for a depth of 5/8ths inch or so. The outer bevel was done using a tool post grinder until a sharp edge resulted. I found that it helped strengthen the edge keeping the exterior bevel/angle fairly steep. I think that the operation could have done with a Dremel tool and a bench grinder if enough care is taken, It does not need to be perfect! I sized the socket to give me a patch size of approximately the size I needed. Hope that this is of some help in providing an alternative approach to the job.
J.B.


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