Need Help Identifying This Rifle.

[68rs327]

I just bought this rifle online Friday. I've been collecting WW1 and WW2 rifles for years and I'm wanting to start collecting older guns like this one. I know this one isn't perfect, but I'm happy to have it. I'd like to know some information about it like date range and a possible maker. Any information you all could give, would be appreciated.
The listing said: "This appears to be an early plains style rifle, originally made as a flintlock and later converted to percussion ignition... It has a .41 caliber, 31" octagonal barrel" and has a cheek rest on the stock. Thanks!

[n stephenson]

I can`t help with ID of rifle , sorry. I can`t help but wonder.  Is your user name a reference to a 68 Camaro?  Nate

[Hungry Horse]

My best guess would be, she was never a flintlock ( one lock bolt), and the lock is a later replacement.
The cap box style, and its orientation would indicate it was made late in the percussion era. Also .41 caliber is too small for a plains rifle.

  Hungry Horse

[Buck]

A or J Wureflein, I might have spelled it wrong but I'm pretty confident it's one of the 2.

Buck

[68rs327]

My best guess would be, she was never a flintlock ( one lock bolt), and the lock is a later replacement.
The cap box style, and its orientation would indicate it was made late in the percussion era. Also .41 caliber is too small for a plains rifle.

  Hungry Horse

What date range would you put her in? I found another that looked like it online. This person said his was a parker field and sons?
I'm hoping when I receive the rifle, I can find some markings on it.
Thank you,

[68rs327]

I can`t help with ID of rifle , sorry. I can`t help but wonder.  Is your user name a reference to a 68 Camaro?  Nate

Yes, 1968 Camaro RS, 327, 4 speed, had her 25+ years.

[68rs327]

A or J Wureflein, I might have spelled it wrong but I'm pretty confident it's one of the 2.

Buck

I just looked up J. Wurfflein, I believe you may be correct! Found one that looked very similar to mine.

[Longknife]

Be VERY cautious  of these on line auctions when the say,,, "plains rifle".... "converted from flintlock"..."rev war"..."civil war",,,, they only say it to enhance the value and many times they are wrong!

[68rs327]

Looks to have some marking? Hoping to find something to identify the rifle.

[Mike Brooks]

The name on the lock is rarely the same as the one who built the gun.

[Longknife]

68rs327, To clarify Mikes' statement, by the late flint period and into the percussion period gun parts were being produced in the US  and also imported for retail sale. Hardware, locks and even barrels were available to purchase and a gunsmith only needed to supply the wood and assemble the gun. The locks usually had the manufacturers , the importers or the retailers name stamped on them. The gunsmith would then stamp or engrave his name on the top flat of the barrel....Ed 

[Longknife]

Your lock look like it MIGHT be by this lock maker:

[68rs327]

Thank you for the information!

[68rs327]

Found a lock very similar to mine. Looks to have the same markings and mounting holes. This one has a round drum while mine is square. But I assume it would be easy enough to mount a square one on the lock. The Lock I found is a "Riddle"

[68rs327]

Just received the rifle in the mail today. I can make out the work "Riddle" on the lock. Nothing on the barrel to tell me who the maker was or how old it is? Looks like someone carved an R.T. in the metal piece between the forearm and barrel. Also on top of the tang that attaches to the stock are brass bars? Curious what they are for? (see photo) Thanks for the help.


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[Ky-Flinter]

Also on top of the tang that attaches to the stock are brass bars? Curious what they are for? (see photo) Thanks for the help.

Decoration.

John Wurfflein was listed in the Philadelphia, PA directory 1835-1871.  Made percussion guns.  If J.W. made your gun, I would guess it was made much closer to 1871 than 1835.  Could have been made even later, if J.W. moved.  If the maker of your gun bought barrels rather than making them, the barrel makers name may be on one of the bottom flats.

The only Riddle I found was in Lancaster 1770.  Too early to be your lock maker.

-Ron

[rich pierce]

It’s seen hard use.  That drum looks like it has been replaced and the lock modified or maybe was previously on another gun.  As stated, the maker of the lock tells you little or nothing about who made the gun, or where.

[KC]

I believe that's a Biddle lock. I have an Ohio-style half stock with that lock on it. I don't think it necessarily means the gun was made by one of the Ohio makers named Levi Biddle. I believe there was a lock maker in Philadelphia named Biddle. Someone else here may know a lot more about it, but that looks like the same lock on my rifle.
K.C.

[WadePatton]

Oh wow, that striped tang.  That's a feature I've not seen before, but I'm not as well-versed as many of our good fellows here.

[Dennis Glazener]

I would bet that the rifle was built as a full stock and someone made a half stock out of it. Look how abruptly the forearm ends and the poured pewter nose cap begins. Looks like someone just sawed the forearm off and added the rib/cap.
Dennis

[Dennis Glazener]

My best guess would be, she was never a flintlock ( one lock bolt), and the lock is a later replacement.
Hungry Horse

Maybe, maybe not. I have seen/owned several original flint rifles with only one lock bolt. I do agree that the commode lid cap box is late but it may have been added when the other conversion work was being done (half-stock/flint to percussion etc)
Dennis

[Hlbly]

Lock marking is Riddle, not Biddle. You see oodles of Riddle locks on late Ohio half stocks.

[JTR]

With all the stamped engraving on the forward part of that lock, I don't think it was ever a flintlock, and is an original percussion. Also don't think the hammer, drum or the weld on the lock plate have been together very long.
All in all, no big deal on an old well used rifle today. And yes, the lock is most likely Riddle.

Thanks for posting it,
John