Author Topic: making and Installing a horn nosecap??  (Read 7007 times)

Offline jerrywh

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making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« on: May 18, 2009, 08:50:22 AM »
 What is the best way to do this??
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 02:22:58 PM »
Hey Jerry...

Acer did a very nice tutorial on this subject.  If I was more computer literate, I'd post the link, but it should be in the achieves...

                    Ed
Ed Wenger

westbj2

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 02:30:57 PM »
Jerry,
This method works well.
http://americanlongrifles.org/old_board/index.php?topic=41.0
Jim Westberg

Roy S.

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 02:38:56 PM »
Jerry,
 This is how I did it..

http://www.nimrodsplace.com/nesquirrelrifle7.html

The only part is doesn't show is that I cut away at the inside to beable to inlet it..
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 02:41:24 PM by Roy S. »

Offline Don Getz

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 03:14:40 PM »
Mike Lea from Columbus, Ohio used to be one of the demonstrators at the Conner Prairie workshops.   He had made a
wooden mould, two part, of a nosecap.   He would then take a piece of flattened cow horn, heat it with a torch to the
"right" temp., then quickly stick it in the mould, tighten the whole thing in a vise, and this real neat nose cap would come
out, just like plastic.  Amazingly simple..............Don

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 03:56:19 PM »
Don Getz, that sounds really neat. That has a ring of natural truth to it, like it would have been a method very likely to have been used.

OK, here's our homework: when looking at old jaegers, try to discern how the grain of the nosecap goes. Is it made from solid, or from a formed piece? I don't really know if you could tell, unless you'd done a lot of horn forming.

Jerry, look at the Steinschloss pictures, and you'll see most of the horn caps the wood goes right thru to the muzzle. The metal ones don't. They are usually screwed right to the barrel, and the wood is captive under them.
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2009, 07:28:00 PM »
Thanks a lot everybody.  That is a lot of good info. 
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2009, 11:34:24 PM »
I've done a couple pretty much as Roy's pictures show.  Very similar to a metal nose cap only a little thicker material to work with initially.

Seemed to work out fine.

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell

Offline Long John

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 04:37:51 PM »
I have a friend, Frank Willis, who makes beautiful horns.  He boils the horn in cokking oil to make it soft and "plastic".  Lecturers at Dixon's talk about horn workers as being the 18th century plastics industry.  I made a drinking mug by heating the horn in bear grease.  Once hot the horn bends and forms like thermoplastic.

Best Regards,

JMC

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 08:44:01 PM »
Is hide glue better than epoxy for horn?

Hide glue is easily repaired, and is often used for restorations where the repair has to be reversible.

Acer
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Joe S

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 08:51:40 PM »
Hide glue is strong enough to hold bow laminations together.   It is water soluble, which has advantages and disadvantages.  Isinglass, which is the best naturally derived glue, is made from sturgeon bladders.  Just out of curiosity, I did a search on the net and you can buy sturgeon bladders from several sources.  Either regular hide glue or isinglass would be PC.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 12:00:43 AM »
Sturgeon bladders? Oh, yeah, we got 'em, they just came in.

Ok, Joe, I just gotta know how you know this?



I can only imagine, back in the day, they would have used the best glue they could get their hands on.
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Offline Rolf

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 12:22:52 AM »
You can buy isinglass made from sturgeon bladder at most stores for home brewing supplies. Its used to clear beer after the primary fermenting process before you bottle it. Check this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isinglass

Best regards

Rolfkt
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 12:31:24 AM by Rolfkt »

Joe S

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 01:48:25 AM »
In the Way Back Times, when my shoulders were held on by tendons and ligaments instead of duct tape and nails, I used to build traditional bows.  There is a lot of literature on building composite bows from natural materials.  The most sophisticated of these were the sinew/wood/horn recurves built by the Mongols.   They certainly used isinglass in their bows. 

“Fish glue” can be extracted from other fish parts, including the skin.  So, I suppose it was just a matter of trying different fish parts and finding the best raw material for the glue.  The Mongol bowyers certainly had sufficient motivation.  Building a bow could take nearly a year, and if it failed during a battle, they killed the bowyer.  At least that’s the story you read these days.   

I also think that I have read something somewhere sometime about using isinglass for gluing horn nose caps onto jaegers.   The Europeans certainly used it, and I would think that it would have been available here.

In case you’ve never used it, hide glue is great stuff.  It is as strong as any wood glue made today.  There are two kinds readily available, a liquid and a solid.  The liquid is junk.

Rolfkt – I am open minded about drinking, however, I draw the line at putting fish whiz in my beer.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: making and Installing a horn nosecap??
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2009, 05:18:36 AM »
I think the bladder is an AIR bladder, to keep the fish bouyant, not a pee bladder. Besides, where would a fish pee if it could.

Still, I'd rather have cloudy beer.

Thanks for the info, Joe.

I have some little glue pots just for heating the hide glue. Maybe i'll get some of dat bladder glob.

Many fish bite if ya got good bait, an here's a little tip I'd like to relate, with mah pole and mah line, I'm a-goin' fishin...I'm a-goin' fishin...an mah baby's goin' fishin, too.
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Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.