Pin hole slotting?

[Bigmon]

All this talk of slotting the mounting pin holes on a longrifle.  I have been shooting for a long time and have never done this?  And sometimes my shooting seems to show it. After reading all your posts.
My question is how to do it without the stock seeming loose on the barrel?
I assume you just do it on the horizontal plain / length ways with the barrel.  But not at all vertical?
So where so I get a file that small and how long do O go each way with the slot?
And a question?  Guns with wedges in stead of pins.  Since they are wedges doesn't that restrict movement??
Am just trying to learn all I can.  Have always had a problem with inconsistent accuracy.  Sometimes shoot great, next time terrible? I always thought it was light conditions amd bad eyes?
Thanks to all

[Mike Brooks]

You slot the lugs, not the stock. refer to my tutorial.

[Goo]

The wood of your stock expands and contracts because of the relative humidity during the change of seasons.  Slots allow stock to move without pressure on the barrel.

[Turtle]

 It's easy to do. I just rock the drill bit fore and aft in the lug hole, then i use a small pointed round file to remove the thin section left at the front and back of the hole.

[deepcreekdale]

I use a jewelers saw to cut the slots. Then a small file to clean it up. I got a set of micro needle files at a hobby shop years ago that are perfect for this task. You also might try MicroMark, https://www.micromark.com/ I think they carry them. They have lots of very small, precision tools.

[Bigmon]

Thanks to ya-all'.  Perhaps I wasn't clear, I do know why you folks all seem to reccomment slotting the tenon holes. (I know not the stock, thank you).
I just have never done it.  Always been afraid of getting my holes too wide and thus allowing the stock / barrel to move up and down, and not just the desired left and right.
All this considering the rifle to be in the horizontal and level position.
I am just looking for a way to make the slot longer, but NOT wider?
Or am I over thinking this, as is usually a problem I have??
Really, thanks to you folks, I appreciate it.

[Robby]

I give a little wiggle room to the lug mortices in the stock as well as slotting the lug. The power of the stock expansion and contraction was evident to me after making a few repairs to guns where the lugs were soldered on, with no dovetail, and torn off. I made shallow dovetails and slotted the new lugs. No reports of failures so far.
Robin

[Black Hand]

Or am I over thinking this...

Yes.
Just lengthen the slot a little in the fore/aft plane of the lug by using a small file (take a small square needle file and render 2 opposite edges safe by grinding until it is the thickness of your pin material) or drill bit then filing. It doesn't take much to do the job...

[PPatch]

Sounds as if you might be overthinking. Done correctly and carefully you should run no risk of widening the slots, all you want is to lengthen them by a fuzz over a 32nd inch each way.

I use a jewelers saw to cut each end and establish the limit for the slotting, then a tapering round Gorbet brand file to finish file the slots. If, by chance, you find that you have somehow broadened a slot then you can tighten the fit of either a pin or key by placing a 1/4" round bar on the middle of the slot and very lightly tapping it with a hammer. Do not try and bend the pin or key to take up any slop in the fit.

dave

[Dave Marsh]

Look at Mike Brooks tutorial.  Page 111.  Picture is worth a thousand words.   

Dave

[Hungry Horse]

 I have had the opportunity over the years to examine many antique longrifles, and barrels of longrifles, and have never seen a barrel that is pinned to the stock with slotted tennons.
 I understand the purpose of slotting, but wonder why it isn’t common in antique weapons.

Hungry Horse

[flehto]

To start off.....the tang screw holds the breech end of the bbl against the stock. I use brass bbl lugs because brass cuts and  files easier. Initially I elongate the pin holes w/ an undersized cutter in the Dremel and then clean up the slots w/  a small needle file. A small, round needle file can also be used.  When filing the slot, the slot surface away from the bbl is what holds the bbl.  against the wood when the pin is inserted. ...the slot surface closest to the bbl can have some "slop".

I had an  instance where a music wire pin came out of the lug/stock w/ difficulty and once the pin was out. it definitely couldn'r be pushed back in. It was in the early stages of  building and I hadn't elongated the slots yet. When I did so, the pin inserted easily. Of course the stock wasn't sealed and evidently that allowed for shrinkage {it was wintertime}.......Fred

[smallpatch]

Recently, I've started using slotted underlugs made for a small key.  Then use a 5/64" pin in the slot.  Works great. No filing/ slotting.

[PPatch]

I have had the opportunity over the years to examine many antique longrifles, and barrels of longrifles, and have never seen a barrel that is pinned to the stock with slotted tennons.
 I understand the purpose of slotting, but wonder why it isn’t common in antique weapons.

Hungry Horse

Might may be that slotting the underlugs takes time, and time was at a premium due to needing to get the average gun finished and out the door. Note the fairly rough finish on a lot of the old guns, often just scraped before a spirit varnish was applied, not much effort in smoothing the backgrounds on relief carving, etc. Time spent on all of these things was money added to their builds. The builders made them acceptable, quite often beautifully so, but didn't fuss excessively over them.

Wood contracts and expands continually with the seasons, slotting the lugs adds a bit of insurance against the wood splitting over the long run. But you knew that.

dave

[Hungry Horse]

 I think the damage often encountered in antique longrifles with pinned forearms is directly attributable to wood shrinkage, and unslotted pin tennons. I’m just surprised that the old timers didn’t figure this out, and start slotting their tennons.

 Hungry Horse

[hanshi]

On the few unslotted lugs on rifles in my stable, I went a different...ok, "cheaper" route.  These tiny wire saws which are widely available in camping/hunting departments, including WallyMart, are cheap and easy to use.  I cut the "handle" off one end so it would go through the lug hole.  Then it was just a matter of sawing the round hole into an egg shaped hole.  It doesn't take much if all the lugs are slightly slotted.

[Stophel]

If the grain is straight through the fore end, it cannot expand or contract in length (to any appreciable degree) and slotting tenons is utterly unnecessary.  If the wood is curly, though, then you have LOTS of cross grain stacked up and that will definitely expand and contract quite a bit.

I have yet to hear of or see any old gun that had slotted tenons.  I have, however, seen barrel pins bent all to $#@*, busted wood, and tenons pulled completely out of their dovetails.

I was making a rifle once some years ago, and had the barrel inletted and pinned with the tenons un-slotted.  I had the barrel out of the stock, and set it all aside for a while.  During that time, the weather changed, and we had a spell of nice, low humidity weather (rare for here), and when I went back to the gun, I found that the front two barrel pins weren't even close to lining up with their holes in the tenons.   The fore end had shrunk over 1/16" in total length. Ever since then I slotted my tenons (and, of course, make fore and aft space in the stock for the tenon inlet).   

I will say, it is NOT one of my favorite tasks, and I don't find it nearly as quick or "easy" as others seem to.  Though technically simple, for me it is a big irritation.

[Jim Kibler]

I once owned a dandy French holster pistol by Thuraine (circa 1670) and it had slotted barrel tennons.  No question it was first work.  It was stocked in burl maple which moves a lot.

[Marcruger]

Since the fore end of a longrifle is basically supported by the barrel, I see no issue at all with slotted loops/lugs.

The back end of the barrel is fixed at the breech.  You could have long slots and still have no issues in my opinion.  Where is the barrel going to "go"?  The loops/lugs are just there to hold up the wood to the barrel.  Unless I am missing something. 

Tight loops/lugs just seem like binding and trouble waiting to happen. 

Just my 2 cents worth.  God Bless,   Marc

[Turtle]

 To clarify my "easy" slotting method. With the barrel out of the stock and the lug holes drilled, put the same sized drill back in the hole, start the drill and rock the drill straight foreword and back to enlarge the slot fore and aft on the edges. The small knife edge left in the center is easy to file off with a small pointed needle file. Thanks for the reminder on making sure the slots are long enough in the stock-- never thought of that.

[Don Stith]

 A lot of the originals I have seen used staples instead of dovetailed lugs.  The staple has a slot as an integral part of the design.

[bama]

There are two reasons for slotting barrel lugs.

Thermal expansion of the barrel as it heats up as you shoot. This presents itself during a target match. If this expansion is not allowed for it will have an effect on accuracy. Have you ever noticed how the first couple of shots out of your rifle go right where you want them to then the more you shoot the wider your group gets. Those un-slotted pins are putting just enough stress on the barrel to have an impact on point of impact of your round.

Wood definitely expands and contracts with the weather/humidity.

I have seen many early rifles that have pulled their-selves apart in the forearm area because there was no slots in the lugs. I doubt that this was apparent to the early builders but since we get to see their work 200+ years later we can prevent this problem in happening in the rifles we build today.

[Dennis Glazener]

A lot of the originals I have seen used staples instead of dovetailed lugs.  The staple has a slot as an integral part of the design.

I never was a big fan of using staples but after slotting a few barrel lugs they are beginning to look better and better.
Dennis

[B.Habermehl]

After I drill my pin holes in my Barrel tenons and stock. Then I drill a hole on either side if each tenon and connect them with a jewelry saw. And file fit the slot. BJH

[smallpatch]

I've switched to these a while back.  Already slotted.