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Author Topic: Appalachia Iron  (Read 6825 times)

timM

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Appalachia Iron
« on: March 31, 2018, 11:56:37 PM »
A Sullivan Co. Tenn. rifle marked W.A.R.  I don't know who built this piece but it has much in common with other makers of this region.  tim







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Offline Justin Urbantas

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2018, 12:44:28 AM »
very interesting entry thimble
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Dave Patterson

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2018, 12:58:43 AM »
Quote from: Justin Urbantas on April 01, 2018, 12:44:28 AM
very interesting entry thimble

... and side-plate!
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Offline Greg Pennell

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2018, 02:39:12 AM »
Now that’s just a great looking rifle all around...nice details everywhere you look!  She’s a Beaut!

Greg
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Offline looper

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2018, 04:23:51 AM »
Very nice!
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Offline JTR

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2018, 07:31:11 AM »
Great gun,,, Nice bench too!  ;)

John
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Offline scottmc

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2018, 04:03:56 PM »
that's a nice looking southern rifle for sure!  Just curious but how long are the ramrod pipes and is the front extension of the trigger gaurd surface mounted or slightly inletted?
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Offline PPatch

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2018, 05:08:30 PM »
That is one good looking SMR! I like every thing about it. I don't have a clue who W.A.R. might be, sorry.

dave
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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2018, 06:10:20 PM »
I really enjoyed seeing this one.  Thanks for sharing it.  That entry thimble is special.  Nice overall condition too.
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Offline wildcatter

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2018, 06:38:22 PM »
Awesome rifle! Thanks for sharing

Matt
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Online D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2018, 07:36:29 PM »
Very interesting treatment of the wrist at the grip rail...clever.  Lovely rifle in wonderful shape.  thanks TimM.
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Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2018, 02:48:59 AM »
 :o :o.... In my opinion, This is a Samuel Glover rifle,... he is the only one who I know of who used a full side-plate like this one,...same entry pipe, too,... Don't know those initials, however,... Are you sure is "W.A.R." ...??? ... maybe "W.A.B", with bottom of "B" worn to resemble an "R",...???,... cross-reference the pix of a signed "S.G." rifle in the virtual library,.....Regards,... Cades Cove Fiddler .....   
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timM

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2018, 05:58:14 AM »
A better view of the initials. 



To my recollection, marked or signed barrels are always the builder short of obvious presentations.  I wonder if this rifle may be an exception and possibly the owners initials? The silver plate is a bit of a surprise for me in this school, and partly shades my thinking. I've spent the time in census records with no successes either as gunsmiths or individuals with variations? Half of the census records lack middle initials so without a gunsmith occupation entry....

CC Fiddler,  I have owned this rifle and also the S. G. rifle for a number of years and I completely agree with the Sam Glover attribution for SG and that attribution is also a reasonable fit for the rifle we are discussing with mitigating considerations that give me hesitation .  I could expand on that at a later time if there was an interest.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 06:20:12 AM by timM »
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Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2018, 06:27:16 PM »
 ;) ;)..Thanx, tim,... Always willing to discuss these Tennessee guns,... just when it seems you are secure in an old builder's style , something comes along that blows all theories out of the water,... !!! ... I'm always willing to learn more and consider any thoughts on these old guns,... without seeing this gun personally, I think the "R" may be a "B",.... also, I have seen this same nipple drum design only on rifles by Ambrose Lawing & Charles Bean Jr., .... They always fascinate me,......... Will you be in Knoxville for the show,...???  ... C C Fiddler,..... 
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timM

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2018, 07:01:38 PM »
Hey scottmc,

In answer to your question the RR pipes are 15/16" long,  I kept on measuring....so, the entry pipe is 1 15/16" with the tube portion being 15/16" and the nose cap is 15/16".  Surprised the 15/16" played out 3 times...smile.  The T-G is in-letted flush on both the front and rear extensions. tim
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timM

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2018, 07:43:50 AM »
Laying on a Samuel Glover attribution to this W.A.R rifle I believe is a close fit, but imo you could also say that about Alfred Gross. These two gunsmiths shared many build details. There is a A. Gross rifle in Dave Byrd's book that would fairly make the case for a A. Gross attribution to this rifle.  I believe one of these two gunsmiths likely made the W.A.R rifle. The barrel marking argue that neither built this rifle?

The full side plate and the Holston style cheek rest are features both A. Gross and S. Glover used.  There is an Alfred Gross rifle in the ALR Library that shows some of what I've mentioned.  Jerry Noble's books show others. 

Forged mounts in common. It would be easy to believe one hand made the mounts of some of their guns. Consider a talented local blacksmith making mounts (or some of the mounts) for the area gunsmiths?  I personally think that that may have been the case often enough.

CC Fiddler, I would love to hit the Knoxville show among others in the region. These iron mount rifles are by far my favorites after a lifetime of collecting. I am hiding behind the rock of waiting for retirement to head east on the gun hunt.  At this point my life is not my own, still out there fitting pipe and paying for schooling.  You could drop on by and drink a few beers and see some guns,...... aim your truck for Canada an make a hard left an when you see the ocean your close....smile. tim




 









 


 
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Offline Marcruger

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2018, 08:04:46 PM »
  Very nice rifle. Thank you for sharing.
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Offline WElliott

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2018, 05:18:00 AM »
Nice rifle. I think the Gross/Glover attribution is on target. Also, I have seen a number of Southern rifles where the initials or name on a silver plate inlayed on the top barrel flat  designates the owner, not the maker.
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Wayne Elliott

Online moseswhite

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2018, 09:08:30 AM »
Great rifle , thanks for sharing ! What caliber is it . It looks pretty large ?
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timM

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2018, 05:05:40 PM »
Hi moseswhite,

In answer to your question of "what caliber is it"  It measures a bit over .40

Casual observation of mine sees to find many of these Tenn - Western N. Carolina rifles in the high 30's to about 40 cal?  I would be interested to hear any other folks observations regarding what is most commonly seen with these rifles as to caliber?

As a lifelong avid shooter I have found the .40 to be a "sweet spot" caliber.  I've an Appalachian re-creation .40 flinter that's gets almost exclusive use for many, many years. tim
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2018, 07:21:32 PM »
Really, really nice rifle!

What is it good for?  (sorry couldn't help myself  :o )
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Offline Arcturus

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 08:07:01 PM »
I see what you did there, Eric.

Absolutely everything!  (Say it again)  ;D
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Jerry

Offline heelerau

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2018, 01:13:15 PM »
A lovely well cared for working rifle. I imagine the bore is is good order. Looks like it has always been appreciated by the succeeding generations. I note the flash cup, nice and shallow to allow easy access for the cap. I have similar on a Niel Fields leman rifle.

cheers

Gordon
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Offline WElliott

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2018, 07:19:19 AM »
Probably 75% if the antique Southern longrifles I have examined over the years have a bore in the .38 - .40 caliber range.  Accounting for muzzle wear, even closer to .40. 
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Wayne Elliott

Offline vanu

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Re: Appalachia Iron
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2018, 03:16:22 AM »

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This is an East Tennessee (?) rifle that come out of SW Virginia. It is an unsigned .30 cal, walnut stocked full stock rifle. all the mountings are brass/bronze. the nose is brass sheet wrapped trade gun style. The guard is a form almost always encountered in iron, nicely made - one photo shows riveting details.  The cap box is cast brass as well. I assume this was made in the 3rd quarter of the 19th century. Cades Cove Fiddler suggested that this is related to Samuel Glover and the Gross family, as the full coverage side-plate is a characteristic of their work. Any thoughts or observations are more than welcome.

Bruce
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