My latest rendition of a jaeger.......third times a charm?

[conquerordie]

Ok, I’m happy to post my latest attempt at a jaeger rifle. It’s basically a restock of my first and second attempts. I posted that rifle and it was kindly nicknamed a “chubby” jaeger. The first stock was functional, but way clunky. I then reworked that stock in my second attempt. Was a much nicer handling rifle, but still just not right. So This is what my 1690s rifle looks like now:














Some dimensions: overall length is 35.5 inches, barrel is 22.25 inches. The length of pull came out to a hair over 12 inches. Best weight I can get is around 7.5 pounds. Wrist is 1.5 inches for the height and width.
I wanted my first rifle to be all hand done, so this restock I inletted everything by hand. I used the rail method for the first time for the barrel. It was a very nice way to perform this task. For the first time ever the ramrod hole went exactly where it was suppose to. I used walnut this time around instead of maple. The lock is the Davis jaeger that I altered some to look like the original I used as a guide. Tried to make the one ramrod thimble look more late 17th centuryish.
Please feel free to critique and comment. I learn a lot from the critiques I receive, and don’t mind being told to improve this or that. I tried to impart everyone’s comments from last time in this build. My photography hasn’t improved I’m afraid. My apologies in advance.
Greg

[Daryl]

That's pretty cool! Well done. Looks to need some Heiny'ing filing on the muzzle - deepen the grooves just a bit, rounded out, as well as the lands filed out just past the grooves - reversing the appearance where the lands become grooves and grooves become lands, so to speak.  This will give an easy loading barrel, without appearing to be crowned- just like about all of the originals I have seen in books.

[hanshi]

I like jaegers, anyway, and that's certainly a nice one.

[Stophel]

Hey, I like that!    And I'm not usually too impressed with most modern attempts at German rifles. Very Prussian!

I'm having a hard time seeing details on my screen, but a couple of things you can do to make it more "authentic" is to take the triggerguard, and hollow out the "lobe" at the rear of the grip rail (assuming you haven't done so, I can't see).  These were forged to shape, and folded up into a hollow cup (even the brass ones I have seen are hollow, not solid).

I can't see if your rifling is round or square grooves.  On the rifle barrels I have seen, round grooves will have their own individual "crowns",  in addition to a very narrow bevel crown.  These can be filed out with a small round file.  I have yet to figure out how it could be done with square grooves, but I don't think I've seen it done with square grooves.  Otherwise, muzzles are cut off absolutely square, with no bevel crown at all.  At least some of these, I believe, are coned.  I have seen a barrel that I know was coned.  You could see it looking into the barrel (which was pristine). About a couple inches into the bore you could see where the flare began.  The bore is flared, AND the grooves are flared just the same.  I'm not certain exactly how it was done, but I'm almost willing to bet it was done with some kind of drift or swedge, cleaned up with a cone shaped reamer after swaging the barrel out.

[Pukka Bundook]

I like this rifle, it has character!

Very Brandenburg school as Geo.  S  Would say.

What rifle did you copy Greg?  ....One in Shumway or another?

Yes, I Like it!

[conquerordie]

Thank you for the comments so far. To address some of them:
Daryl and Stophel- I never thought to do anything with the muzzle. There is a slight cone that I did with the end of a rounded screwdriver handle and wet dry paper. I'm looking at original pics and will attempt the filing. Your right most barrels seem to have something of a treatment. I'll post pics when completed.
Stophel- I did drill out that part of the guard this time around. I didn't show it because it's a flat bottom hole, and I doubt the originals were. Wasn't sure, but after looking at original pics, id missed that detail the first two times around with this gun. Its correct now.
Pukka Bundook- the rifle I used as a guide was from Herman Historica. Here's a link: https://www.hermann-historica.de/en/steinschloss-muellerbuechse_hans_loeffler_in_ruhla_datiert_1690/l/144023?aid=146&Lstatus=0&Accid=973&currentpos=7
Didn't copy exactly, just looked for details from a rifle from this time period.
Greg

[Mikecooper]

What is the 'rail' method for the barrel?   

[conquerordie]

The rail method is when you clamp and screw aluminum or steel rails along the side of your barrel, and then saw down with a maofified hand saw to create a @!*% near perfect inlet. Helps you to accurately and quickly remove wood in the barrel channel. Learned it in this site.
Greg

[Stophel]

You're way ahead.   

[Daryl]

Sounds good, Greg - champing at the bit to see the finished muzzle.

[Ed Wenger]

I really enjoy anything “Jaegerish”, and like the character of this piece.  They can be a real challenge, and you’ve done a nice job, thanks for sharing.


          Ed

[n stephenson]

Greg, You have done a really NICE job!! Those short little Germanic rifles are really different in architecture. You have done well capturing the subtleties . I am really impressed that you chose to restock the rifle. Too many times a new builder will stock a rifle and end up with something less than good, then they place it upon an alter as, "my first rifle" and refuse to touch it. Then years down the road when they get good , they keep it hid in a closet , because they are embarrassed by it. I am very glad to see that you wouldn't "settle" , no "sacred cows" here. You took what you had , started over , and succeeded BIG!! I commend your spirit as well as your ability .  Now for the inevitable question . What`s Next?     Good Job!!!   Nate

[Pukka Bundook]

Greg,

The first one I made, had me puzzling over the length of pull.
These are often shorter in the length of pull compared to what we usually  use.
After studying it all for while, I saw we can not make these rifles look right with our 14" or so  LOP's very often.

I asked Ron Ehlert about this and he asked what I normally use. Told him 14" and he said make it 12  1/2" and it'd be usable.
The trouble I found, is that a longer pull messes up the architecture of the piece.    You have Not messed this one up Greg, it looks good.  But for anyone thinking of building one, look at how they were held back then in that part of the world, and you will see how a shorter pull can work very well.

(The comb length, wrist and trigger-guard length on a stepped wrist type is all to pot if we stretch out length only on the stock, and not the furniture)

Manner of hold very often was;
Left hand close to and under the lock, left elbow on hip, with a leaning backwards stance.  In this manner, the head is held back, and no tendency to crawl up the stock. It makes a short pull very comfortable.  Very sorry if I'm teaching grannies how to suck eggs!!

ATB,

Richard.

[Stophel]

It's hard sometimes to convince people that they don't need 14-15-16" pull lengths (as if their modern guns are that long anyway).  I'm 6' 2" with a 38" sleeve, and 13 1/2" is good for me, and I can easily handle them down to about 12 1/2".  Longer than that, and they hang up in my armpit.  It's a rifle, not a shotgun.   

12 3/4" to about 13 1/2" seems to be about average on old rifles, both German and American.

[conquerordie]

Thank you again for the positive comments. First I want to post a pic of the muzzle. Earlier Daryl and Stophel pointed out that some coning and file work on the muzzle would be correct. So here's my attempt:

I had a slight cone that I had done during the first build, so this time I opened the grooves some. Its only about 1/8" deep down the bore. Less on the face of the muzzle. Thank you Daryl and Stophel for their input on this.
Richard- that's intersting on the form the shooters took shooting at that time. When I was younger I shot M1 Garands in NRA high power matches and shot using that same posture. Hands under the receiver elbows right to the body resting on my left hip, head easily behind the sights. I will certainly try this when I take it to the range.
Nate- like you said, one gets better with expirience. When I posted it the last time, Mike Brooks said that I made a gun, but it wasn't really a jaeger. I'm trying to be more historically correct as to architecture. I'm sure this one isn't perfect either, but I had more knowledge and insight into what a jaeger was, and not just a short fat rifle. I believe I've come close and I am happy with it. Might be three stocks later, but it's still my first rifle, just with more knowledge under my belt.
My next project is a brass barreled blunderbuss. I'm making a composite gun that could have been found on a Massachusettes privateer early in the Rev War. I'm doing this one all by hand as well. I like to hike and fish and garden, so chances are I won't do much more than inlet the barrel and then shelve the project until after deer season. Wish I had more time, or less hobbies. Gun building for me is a cold weather hobby!
Greg

[Joe S.]

You did a nice job with this rifle,looking at jaegers IMHO theres plenty there that can make or break a recreation

[Stophel]

Love that muzzle!

I'm actually kinda in the same boat.  I have a German rifle that I first made loooong ago.  I think it actually was the second rifle I ever made (the first being a Pecatonica Tennessee rifle... long since deconstructed).  Probably long about 1998 or so.  The first time didn't suit me at all, so, I thought I'd restock it.  That was my project for Ron Ehlert's class, which was some time ago now, too.  Though it was better, I still wasn't happy with it at all, so... apart it came.... Actually, as I look back on some of the guns I made about the time of that class, I wish I could have some of them back!  Mostly to take off some of that extra wood!



I did all this work here with the old lock and barrel probably about 4+ years ago, and that was it.  The last gunsmithing I have done. Maybe I can get back to it soon, if I can get a good clean work area ready.