How much lube should be on a patch?

[m1garand_man]

I don't see how a few grains of powder sticking to a patch can create a problem worth worrying about.

Someone please help me out here. 

I'm with you on this.
If the ball goes where I point it, so what if a few grains of powder remain....?

Because mine dont always. I have been dealing with a lot of fliers and not able to explain why until now.

[rollingb]

An over powder wad of some sort will help protect those patches.  I use them fairly frequently and most always in the bush.  Best fix is a good balance of ball size, patch thickness and a good lube.

I agree!

[Iktomi]

In my opinion, beeswax is VERY useful if you make your own bullet lube for BL ctg. shooting - or for shooting slugs in a ML.  It is not a patch lube nor is it needed as a patch lube as

 I dunno. I cut my tallow with a small amount of beeswax to keep my lube from melting and running out of the tin in hot weather. Deer season starts here in August, and it can easily be over 100 degrees. Once the weather turns cold, and "cold" being relative, as daytime temps here in winter are rarely less than the mid-40's, I'll cut my tallow with a bit of olive oil so my lube isn't a brick. So, for my climate and temps I find a little bit of beeswax useful. It doesn't take much to firm up the lube a bit.

[Hungry Horse]

I agree a little bit of bees wax can be beneficial, but emphasize the “ little” part of the equation. I also live in Northern California, and understand completely the reason for a stiffening agent in any tallow/bear grease mix. I only urge a little moderation.

  Hungry Horse

[Iktomi]

I agree a little bit of bees wax can be beneficial, but emphasize the “ little” part of the equation. I also live in Northern California, and understand completely the reason for a stiffening agent in any tallow/bear grease mix. I only urge a little moderation.

  Hungry Horse

 It only takes a very few % of wax to keep it from melting in the heat. A little bit goes a long way.

[WadePatton]

I don't see how a few grains of powder sticking to a patch can create a problem worth worrying about.

Someone please help me out here. 

I'm with you on this.
If the ball goes where I point it, so what if a few grains of powder remain....?

I'm not so sure that the power contamination issue is the cause of your fliers, but it could be.

Here's a test to see: without changing anything else (too many variables), and in good air (too breezy this day my location), shoot a couple of 5-shot groups at your regular distance-BUT drop a card down on the powder before the prb.  Card, paper wasp nest, filler, anything that will surely keep your powder uncontaminated for long enough to launch well-aimed shots. 

IF you get a an uncalled flier, then contamination isn't the issue and ye shall have to dig further. If you eliminate fliers, then you've nailed it an might experiment with more traditional lubes and lesser amounts.

I use spit for targets and NFO for hunting, sometimes tallow on a reload.  There are as many lube recipes as there are shooters. I like mine as traditional and functional as possible. Enjoy the shooting.

[rollingb]

I don't see how a few grains of powder sticking to a patch can create a problem worth worrying about.

Someone please help me out here. 

I'm with you on this.
If the ball goes where I point it, so what if a few grains of powder remain....?

Because mine dont always. I have been dealing with a lot of fliers and not able to explain why until now.

I'd rather suspect a poor ball-fit combined with maybe too thin of a patch, are the 2 main reasons for your fliers.
What caliber is your rifle?
What size ball are you using?
What does your patch material mic out at?

Have you taken the time to work up the ultimate load for your rifle?
Were you getting fliers while you were doing "load development"?

Usually,.... a good starting point is, a ball .010"-.005" smaller than your rifle's bore diameter, and a tight-weave COTTON patch material that mics .015"-.020", followed by finding a powder charge that gives you the tightest groups.

"LUBE" can most generally be anything that allows you to get the ball down the bore, softens fouling after firing, and doesn't contain petroleum.

I'll even go out an a limb (now) and say,.... that too much lube (without going to ridiculous extremes) will likely cause you less problems, than too little lube. 

[Daryl]

I'd rather suspect a poor ball-fit combined with maybe too thin of a patch, are the 2 main reasons for your fliers.
What caliber is your rifle?
What size ball are you using?
What does your patch material mic out at?

Have you taken the time to work up the ultimate load for your rifle?
Were you getting fliers while you were doing "load development"?

Usually,.... a good starting point is, a ball .010"-.005" smaller than your rifle's bore diameter, and a tight-weave COTTON patch material that mics .015"-.020", followed by finding a powder charge that gives you the tightest groups.

"LUBE" can most generally be anything that allows you to get the ball down the bore, softens fouling after firing, and doesn't contain petroleum.

I'll even go out an a limb (now) and say,.... that too much lube (without going to ridiculous extremes) will likely cause you less problems, than too little lube. 

Well summarized.

[m1garand_man]

I think that in the past a poor fit was defiantly one of my contributing factors.

I noticed things started to improve as I whent thicker on the patches.

My rifle is a .50 cal but actually measures .515". It's a seven groove so that's measured from one groove to the land opposite from it. My best luck was with a .495 ball and .018 patches.

Next time I shoot I'll try that against my .490 balls with a .020 patch and the .495 and the .020 patch if I can get it to fit.
The current combo is already getting already little stiff to pop into the muzzle though once it's in there it rams home fairly easily.

As stiff on already in got the rifle I shot a ladder test to find the most accurate load. Between 60 and 80 there was enough dispersion even at 25y that there was no apparent winner so I just stuck with 80gr since it shot point of aim at 100y. Most of my shots will be in the black on at standard small bore target at 100y. But then I'll get the randim in that is barely on the paper or nowhere to be found.

I'll know more after these tests.

[rollingb]

My rifle is a .50 cal but actually measures .515". It's a seven groove so that's measured from one groove to the land opposite from it.

OK,.... now if you know the depth of the barrel's rifling, simply subtract the one side's remaining depth from .515" and you'll have the barrel's actual "bore size".

Just out of curiosity,.... who made the barrel?

[m1garand_man]

Ok, I just figured that with odd number grooved barrels you measured straight across since a land would end up pusing everything to the groove side opposite and this would continue all the way around.

My barrel is a Rice round bottom rifled barrel. 


It's kind of hard to see but you can make out some of the grooves on the bottom.

[Daryl]

It figures the land to groove measurement would be .515" or maybe is it .516" as most Rice rounded rifling is .016" depth, and .500" would be a normal bore size - or maybe .501" with a new reamer.

In the .50 I have, with rounded rifling of .016" depth, I use .495" ball and .022" denim or canvas patch. This combination only 'just' goes to the bottom of the grooves, even though the math shows compression in the bottoms of the grooves.

[rollingb]

I just checked TOTW and they state Rice barrels specs as,....
"Grooves are cut .016" deep, with round bottom rifling."

So if you subtract .016" from .515" that leaves your barrel's bore size at .499" (that is,... if you measured accurately).
Rice barrels are premium quality barrels, so if Rice says your barrel is a ".50 caliber", I think you can trust that info.

Riflings as deep as .016" will accommodate a bit thicker patch, than another maker's barrel that has .010"-.012" riflings.
I'd certainly think a .495" ball and .020"-.022" patching would be a good combo in your barrel (at least for starters), then eventually try a bit thicker patching just to see if groups will tighten up even more after your barrel shows you what powder charge it likely prefers.
Then start all over again to give the "final tweek" to your load development.
Tight ball-patch combinations have proven,... time after time,... to be the most accurate. 
 

 

[rollingb]

I agree 100% with Daryl,.... even though he leaves me a bit embarrassed due to his typing skills and blazing speed.