Needing TLC...

[Pukka Bundook]

Morning Gents,

This little pistol needs some TLC.

The cock screw was sheared, so some clown soldered it on, (could have been worse!)  they got it on the tumbler in the wrong position.
Wood shattered, unbridled lock marked Rob't Harvey.

It's an old one.
Robert Harvey was apprenticed to Henry Anthonison, turned over to John Dafte, 1691.
Free of Gunmaker's Co., 1702.
Elected assistant,1722, Master, 1725;
Gunmaker to Ordnance, 1703 -6.
Maker of fine silver mounted pistols and crossbows.
Died 1734.

No entry pipe fitted.   as you see , it needs the stock "breaking and re-setting" as Linda put it!





Similar sideplate on a V early 'Buss'.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Two worthy projects.  Nice to see such an early handgun.

[JV Puleo]

I like it, but I'm very partial to the end of the 17th and beginning of the 18th-centuries. There is a great deal more to be learned about what was going on at that time. And, it is a period that has been pretty much neglected. One of the things that collectors frequently forget is that there is often just as much to be learned from a rough piece as there is from one in pristine condition so I particularly applaud any effort to save them.

j

[Pukka Bundook]

Taylor,

The Blunderbuss is not mine.  It was one I watched at auction some time back.

Joe,
I agree there is a lot to be learned from rough pieces, maybe more so than pristine, as we have to have them all dissected to work on.  A thing that would Never happen with a pristine example.
Of note up to now, is that there is no trigger plate, just short piece into which the tang screw fits.
I have and will take more photos, and at present have the lock in a caustic soda bath. 
When I first saw it Joe, I thought it May have been an early Barbar.

Please see below;


The Barbar is not mine either, but note the barrel configuration.

[James Rogers]

My time frame! Love it!!

[greybeard]

I have used a saturate solution of borasic acid to soak rusty parts in . May take a a few days but they come out clean and frosty looking.Works great on double barrels.
 It is not invasive at all.    Bob

[Niall]

Good Morning,Richard.

Great find,that's a very nice pistol.I'd imagine you would date it to c.1710-1720.
I would encourage you to take some detailed photos when you get around to taking it apart and give us a look ....Is there an internal lock bridle?
Seems to be pretty intact......should be no bother to you to get it looking smart again.
That's a very pronounced swamp to the barrel.....what the bore size ?
The buttcap is very fine.....is it in two parts?.........It's obvious how the spurs give added strength to the slender and elegant buttstock...kept it in place all those years.

Grand job.

[Pukka Bundook]

Good morning Niall,

Very nice to see you here.  :-) It appears Welcome is in order!.

Yes, I have and will take more photos. 
The lock has no bridle on the tumbler,but all seems in fairly decent order, apart from the bloke with the soldering iron crushing the half and full bent positions in the vise!  I believe I can peen them back though.
I believe you are spot on re. the date. 
The bore is about 20, but not measured it yet. Yes, a good swamp on the barrel, and both loops in good order.
Buttcap is two piece, a screw holding the base.   
Again Niall, Very nice to "see" you!

Bob,
The borasic is something I will bear in mind.  For bores I have used white vinegar, but it Will remove any remaining finish, so Not for the outside.
I do like the Caustic soda, as it destroys organic matter, like old oil, that causes the rust to adhere to the iron.   After a caustic bath, the rust more or less falls off, without any surface damage to remaining finish.

A few detailed images;



























You will notice the lack of trigger plate, and that maker's mark is obscured at present.  Also, the mainspring was bearing on the lower mortise, so the wood has to be pressed back up to the lock.
The break was full of glue, the wood not touching at all.  Fortunately, the glue is of a type that softened easily with a mild furniture  stripper.
Got the broken stock apart now, and most of the old glue cleaned out.

Needs the trigger-guard tang making.  was missing.

I don't know why I started messing with this now, I only took it to the workshop to have a look at it!
Got piles of other projects half done.

More as and when.

PS,
the "No trigger plate" could be applied to more or less any early gun or rifle, but appears a little uncommon.

ATB,

Richard.
 

[James Rogers]

The maker's mark although illegible is in fact of the shape of Harvey's mark. This would be an economy model.

[davebozell]

Have you tried Evaporust on iron parts?  My experience with old tools is that it removes rust, but nothing else.  It is not acid based, so it won't attack the bare metal.  Looks like this will be a super pistol after you finish working your magic on it.

[Pukka Bundook]

James,

I sat the barrel breech in the caustic soda with the lock overnight, and already with a light steel wooling the makers mark and proof have come up as clear as day.
(photos in due course)
Yes, same as the lock, Rob't Harvey.  The lock had sat in the solution a  couple of days, and came out Very  nice, compared to how it looked beforehand!
 Nice little border engraving.
The only thing that spoils it a  bit, is where the previous owner had sanded the lock to get a look at the makers name.  The rest of the lock still has the patina, and looks grand.

Dave,

No, I have ever used Evaporust, but it sounds useful stuff!
Reading your last sentence, I think you have more confidence in me than I do!

Still jig-sawing trying to get the broken butt lined up for 're-setting".  Glue all cleaned off, but wood does not quite match up on the inside when the outside of the stock is in line.  May be a certain amount went missing with movement.

Richard.

[Niall]

Richard.

Thanks for the welcome......I've been checking in on this great forum for quite a while now.

Great photos,brings us all up to speed on this interesting pistol.

As well as on early guns,the no triggerplate setup is fairly common on cheap commercial arms from the Birmingham trade of a century
later.

If there's wood loss at the old repair you could consider one of the expanding polyurethane gap filling glues...Gorilla Glue is one comes to mind...If that's not the way you want go you'll probably need to splice in some new wood.

Keep the photos coming.

[Pukka Bundook]

Good morning Niall,

Thank you for the glue idea.  Can such stuff be stained?
I think we all tend to go with what we know, and was thinking of a splice. It would be easier with  the buttcap off, but that screw is a bit frozen in.
Thank you also on the missing trigger plate.   This isn't a high end piece, so that fits right in, (economy measure)
I'm pleased it survived, and didn't just get dumped.
Here are a few more photos, but the maker's mark did not come out as  clearly as it should.  (camera man's fault!)

You can see though, how a short bath in Caustic soda has removed a lot of the rust and old oil.
Maker's mark, before and after;





Lock, before and details after;  (Not one screw was seized!)










I must say here, that if I'd attacked this lock with emery paper, it would have been ruined.
As it is, the caustic softens the rust and it comes off with fine wire wool and leaves it looking like it should.

Best,
Richard.

PS  click on pics for full size.

[n stephenson]

Richard WOW! not only on a really neat pistol, but that caustic soda method is something I have to try. Where do you get caustic soda?  I have some things to clean , that I don`t want to ruin..       I really like the whole pistol , but that sideplate , makes me want to copy it , and put it on a fowler. Thanks for showing. I see a thumbpiece in the pics, when you take more pics, may I request a look at the thumbpiece. Thanks Nate

[Pukka Bundook]

Nate,

Caustic soda should be available at a supermarket, or Homeall and such.   I think it's also called lye.
Don't get it on your skin, it'll eat it!

To use, place the parts in a plastic pail or whatever, (Not Aluminum!)  and out of doors. 
Pour boiling water over them until immersed.
Add a tablespoon or so of Caustic soda, and stand back!....as it gets real excited for a start.  Don't breath in the fumes.

In a short while it stops boiling, and after maybe half an hour you can take it indoors so as not to freeze.  Wear rubber gloves when handling it.
After a day or week, it matters not, and will not hurt the metal, tip the water down the drain, it helps keep it clean! and wash all the parts thoroughly.
Rub over with medium to fine wire wool , or use a very soft wire (brass bristled) brush, then when clean , oil immediately as it Will re-rust, being completely oil free.

The caustic comes in a plastic jug and is in crystal/powder form.

ATB,

R.

[Niall]

Richard.

That ironwork is coming up really well......the makers mark and proofs are as good as they need to be.

Maybe epoxy glue with some wood dust mixed in is the way to go if you're going to try the gapfilling option.The expanding glue probably wouldn't have the necessary strength.Plus the wood dust will take some stain.

Caustic works on any carbon based product like oil or grease.Great for stripping any old linseed oil based paints.It had it's heyday with the stripped pine era 20-30 years ago when when all painted furniture,doors,skirtings,architraves,etc. had to be dipped in the caustic bath......I don't know where all the lead based paint residue ended up after it went down the drain .......also it attacked the hide/scotch glue that held everything together

It will destroy oil based bluing or jappaned finishes as well as attacking some metals ie. aluminium/aluminum

Will not affect patina on brass

Works great on some things .....but not on everything

[n stephenson]

Thanks, I have used lye to clean cast iron cookware. I just hadn't heard it called caustic soda. I learn something new every day.    Thanks Nate

[rich pierce]

Great to know!  Thanks for sharing.

[OldSouthRelics]

Excellent thread. I appreciate the pictures of and description of the process Pukka.

Not one screw was seized? You have to be the luckiest man alive! Did you use a penetrating oil on them before hand?

Regards,

Bob

[Pukka Bundook]

Bob,

No, I just tried them with a nicely fitting turnscrew and they all gave.  :-)
That's not usual. I think it is making up for plenty of others!

Must add that if a lock Is seized, a caustic bath will often break them loose.
This one came apart before bath-time.

The wood screw in the butt-cap is stuck, BTW.

Best,
R.

[Pukka Bundook]

Nate,

Here is your photo of the escutcheon, it's a plain one;


Couple of the progress on the broken butt.  Wood was shaved in places where the last gluing had been miss-aligned so they filed a bit off the overlaps.  This will always show.
Had to splice a bit on the inside of the grip.  (wood missing)

[n stephenson]

Thanks Richard, I do like to see various thumb pieces as there is a lot variety. Thanks Nate

[Elnathan]

Richard,

When you get finish getting that lovely old girl cleaned up and reassembled, I'd be very interested in getting some dimensions, as I'm sure others here would be. I really like the pistols from that era, and good pictures and dimensions are hard to find, particularly things like breech diameter.