Herman Rupp

[wmrike]

There are a lot of good points being made about the style of engraving being influenced by the German alphabet, by personal flair, and by "that's more or less kinda' the way I think I was taught."  I sat back and read all these replies, keeping a lid on an initial impression of mine.  Both of the initials incorporate a straight vertical line and a flowing line falling off to the left.  It is almost as if the engraver's style was to incorporate both of these lines anywhere there was a vertical component to the letter.  It could be part of a J, a K, an R, and so forth.   That may muddy the water, but perhaps someone else can run with it better than me.  All that said, I like the idea of either a JR or AR.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Tom, I think I might have read that somewhere, that Kuntz signed his name in different spellings, and that someone added the "T".  But now that I have really looked at it, I agree with you.  The finishing line of the "n" flows into the "t" - it would not flow into the "z" if the "t" were not there.  So the "t" is not a later add-on.  He did cramp his last two letters though...sucks to be mortal, don't it!!
Regarding the rifle, I think that the carving style, design and execution all point to the hand of Jacob Kuntz.  I think that John Rupp was very tight with him, and that John had engraving and perhaps carving done on his rifles, by Jacob.  This may be one such rifle.  On the other hand, John Rupp may have been so impressed by Jacob's work, that he carefully did his in the same fashion.  Who could ever stoop so low!  I, for one.

It's all interesting,eh?

[brokenflint]

this would all be alot easier if they where still alive and we could just ask them 

Broke

[Stophel]

In German print "tz" are put together in one letter.  Though this is not German style print, it would seem he kept the principle.  I don't think the "t" was a later addition.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Thanks Chris...solid info.

[Don Getz]

I can't really see an end to this....I don't think we can tell exactly what letters are depicted here.   There are just so many
added-on lines in the signature, it is difficult to say exactly what letters they are.  I can see a "J" in the first letter, until
you add on that vertical line, then it could be an " A", but, what is that added on blob to that vertical line?   Is that part
of something else?   The second letter looks like an "R"...in order to make it a "K", you would have to include part of that
extra swirls off to the right, and I don't think they were meant to be part of the signature.  If we could identify the gun as
tho it were unsigned, we might be able to unscramble it..............Don

[Majorjoel]

I couldn't agree with you more Don, it sort of reminds me of several pictured rifles in the Kentucky Rifles and Pistols book. It gives the signature name on the barrel and then states it as maker unknown?? If you treat this rifle as a maker unknown, you are more apt to look at the individual details in a different light. Perhaps getting a closer ID.............or JK.....or HR......or AR. I cannot immagine what folks 200 years from now will make of our chicken scratch lingo. Enjoying the ALR and my KFC with the TV blabbing in the background.

[Mike R]

In an old MuzzleBlasts article, Shumway attributed this rifle to Jacob Kuntz.

[Eric Kettenburg]

The only problem with the old attributions (late 60s through 1980s) is that during that period anything that remotely looked like this was being attributed to John Rupp or Jacob Kuntz with no real room for any other possibilities.  Perhaps it was made by one of these guys - I'm certainly not dismissing old attributions as many were quite thoughtful and valid - however in my own mind I'd like to keep the possibilities open and think further on "AR."

[eddillon]

Digging back into the archives by way of Google, I found this thread.  I am adding some photos of
my "Rupp-Style" smoothrifle for some preliminary comparisons to the photos in the thread.  
Mainly interested in the lockplate size and shape.  Disregard the frizzen, pan and cock.  They are modern parts from Stan Hollenbaugh that I used to re-convert.  
The lockplate is identical in size and shape.  Were any photos taken of the "Herman Rupp toe plate?  
The plate is missing from mine but the outline of its shape seems unique to me.
 The front of the toe plate is cut in a reverse manner compared to what is usually encountered.  
Hoping that it may help in identifying my petite "Rupp-Style" smooth rifle.  Emphasis on "Style".  Never intended to infer Rupp without further verification.  Here is a link to 3 photos that show the lockplate area and missing toe plate area of my petite smooth rifle.
http://www.neconos.com/detailsruppstyle.htm
A link to more photos, if you care to see more.
http://www.neconos.com/detailssmooth.htm

[Howard]

Very nice. We can all agree on that.  This is a fine example of craftsmanship.  Whoever made it was having a great time as all the lines are flowing fluently!

[jdm]

J first saw this rifle at the Decatur Ill. Kentucky rifle show in 1986. It is the one that sent me on the road to collecting Lehigh guns. The owner was kind enough to let me pick it up and look. It started a long  lasting friend ship  with him and other collectors.   What a fine, fine rifle.  By the way  I seill think of it as a Herman Rupp....      JIM