Front lock screw has to be relived for ramrod. Is that normal?

[m1garand_man]

On my rifle (which I didn't build) it seems that the screw holes for the front lock screw might not have been located properly. There's not much that can be done now but the original was relived to allow the ramrod to pass through the shank of the screw.

Well the original screw was a 8-32 and cut through most of the diameter and recently broke.

I cranked this one out on my lathe (first attempt). It came out serviceable if not good looking. I made the shank a #10 diameter but kept the 8-32 threads. This one has much more metal left on it and should hold.

Have you guys seen this done before? Is this common?




Before filing the relief for the ramrod


After filing. There's actually more thickness than what you see in the photo but it's stI'll a lot more thin than I'd like

[rsells]

I have done this over the years when the ramrod hole has drifted toward the barrel grove making it impossible to put the rod home without modification to the screw.  I do similar to what you have done.  I do put an index mark on the head of the screw and inform the customer of the correct location to allow the rod to go home, and caution them about trying to remove the screw with the rod in place.
                                                                                              Roger Sells

[WadePatton]

It's so not uncommon that sometimes the front screw is faked. Some (as I've read here), make scrapers and dig out more relief for the RR. It's simply the natural result of drilling lengthwise into the grain of wood, there's always some LUCK involved. Also the shape of the cutting bit is very important to minimize wander.

Do make your index mark and DON'T turn that screw with the RR in the gun.

[L. Akers]

I have seen antiques done this way and have done it myself, but not without tapering the end of the ramrod first.  Sometimes tapering the rod is all that is needed, and tapering also reduces the amount of screw notch required.

[James Rogers]

Are you trying to get a full 3/8" rod down the hole? If so, I would turn a waist on the lock nail instead of the groove and then tapwr your rod to a smaller diameter tip a couple of inches long.

[smylee grouch]

I have had to notch that front screw on several rifles and I like the notch better than turning a waist on the screw shank because it leaves more steel above the weak point. I like to use a 10x32 for that same reason plus a slight taper to the end of the rod and scraping the bottom of the rod hole will cure most of the problem.

[Frank]

I always taper my rod and use a 6x32 screw if I break into the ramrod hole when drilling for the front lock bolt.

[Scota4570]

That is a lot.  I'd use a hook on the front of the plate and a single lock screw. 

It is a reminder to me to check where the hole landed before I inlet the lock plate.  It would be much easier to move the hole a smidge than deal with this.   I have not done it yet but putting studs in the lock plate and using the holes to slide the plate on the same way every time for inletting may have merit. 

This is the type of thing that makes me unlikely to use run of the mill pre-carve stocks.  They really don't save any time if something is messed up.  But, that is another post. 

[Hungry Horse]

I took apart an old unmarked longrifle one time and was shocked when I removed the forward lock bolt, and found it was a short woodscrew with the head worked to look like the upper lock bolt. Thinking the threaded end of the bolt showing was a dummy, I was surprised when I removed the upper bolt and the lock did’nt just fall out. I raised the rear of the lock and pulled rearward a little, and the lock came out. A short piece of threaded rod had been filed into a hook the hooked under a short small headed wood screw, screwed into the lock mortise. I always wondered how many people handled that gun in its life, and never knew it’s secret.

  Hungry Horse

[m1garand_man]

I have done this over the years when the ramrod hole has drifted toward the barrel grove making it impossible to put the rod home without modification to the screw.  I do similar to what you have done.  I do put an index mark on the head of the screw and inform the customer of the correct location to allow the rod to go home, and caution them about trying to remove the screw with the rod in place.
                                                                                              Roger Sells

I didn't know about this when I bought the rifle and tried to remove the screw with te ram rod in place. You can do this on military muskets so I thought nothing of it. It gouged the rod badly enough that it splintered when I used it later. I've reglued it and it's holding but I use a range rod when I shoot.

The replacement screw is indexed for my knowledge. I wanted it to tension the lock plate as the old one was loose and when I tightened it it broke. So far this one looks like it will hold.

I guess one could drill a small pilot hole before in letting the lock or brass washer to see if thier estimated location clears the ram rod hole before doing any other work. I'll use that technique if I ever build a gun.

[m1garand_man]

Are you trying to get a full 3/8" rod down the hole? If so, I would turn a waist on the lock nail instead of the groove and then tapwr your rod to a smaller diameter tip a couple of inches long.

The rod tapers down to .030. Turning a waist on it would be a great idea but not feasible on this gun as this oversize shank screw is relived about 3/4 through its diameter. I can't go much larger without fear of weakening the stock. I'd probably need a 3/8 or larger screw shank to do it. Right now I'm at 3/16.

[jerrywh]

 It isn't normal but it is common.

[Mark Elliott]

As I try to keep the web between my ramrod groove and barrel pretty slim,  I have to notch the front lock screw quite often.  However,  I usually don't have to notch it that much given that I also taper my ramrods.    I will say that it is not an ideal thing to do and should be avoided as much as possible.

[Stophel]

 if the screw required THAT much of a notch, it would drive me nuts.

[m1garand_man]

As I try to keep the web between my ramrod groove and barrel pretty slim,  I have to notch the front lock screw quite often.  However,  I usually don't have to notch it that much given that I also taper my ramrods.    I will say that it is not an ideal thing to do and should be avoided as much as possible.

Oh and this rod is tapered. Down to .030"

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I'll bet you have more than 1/4" of wood below the rod hole.  Scrape the hole lower to accommodate your rod.

[thecapgunkid]

Good timing on this post.  I am mid-stream on a TOW Christians Spring and found that the front bolt hit both the bottom of the barrel AND obstructed the rod.  So I put the bolt in my drill and ran the entire un-threaded waist over a coarse and then finer mill file braced against the bench. Then I refreshed the threads.

Next  I hollowed the barrel just a mouse whisker with a couple of strokes of a round file to expand the marks on the bottom flat into a shallow groove and, lastly, I tapered the last six inches of the rod by drawing a waist with a sharpie and scraping until the mark disappeared.

I am not sure if I even made a mistake in the drilling of the hole, and it seemed unusual that the hole would hit both the barrel and the rod hole as drilled.

This process cured me of any desire to cut into the cross bolt.

Hope this helps.

Capgun

[FALout]

If you look at some of the recent posts lately, yes it does happen.  As already mentioned there are several ways to deal with this.  If you look at the layout of a rifle, there isn’t a lot of room, if the barrel gets lowered into the stock ( more so then planned) there’s an issue.  On precarves, the lock prep can be slightly too high in the front not giving greatest location for drilling front lock bolt.  Sometimes while drilling, things just don’t go as planned ( Murphy’s law comes into play).  Sometimes due to the nature of the woods grain, the drill bit wanders while drilling for ramrod.  It’s the nature of building, things don’t always go as planned, so you have to make the best of the situation.  It doesn’t make the rifle inferior, just shows man made, not mass produced on multi million dollar machinery.

[Bob Roller]

I have seen antiques done this way and have done it myself, but not without tapering the end of the ramrod first.  Sometimes tapering the rod is all that is needed, and tapering also reduces the amount of screw notch required.

I was going to suggest this.Taper the rod.Some Hawken rifles,according to Tom Dawson had
tapered rods to clear the trigger bar.Some of the long trigger bars were tapered,some weren't.
Also I wonder about a 6x40 or 32 cross screw and are any available from regular parts suppliers
like Log Cabin or TOW?

Bob Roller

[Dphariss]

Make a scraper rod and scrape the rod hole deeper the allow a full lock bolt. This is the cutting end of a 5/16" 303 (non hardening) rod with a lip upset then bent slightly to make it cut on a 3/8" hole.  I made this to correct the run out of a hole in a precarved stock 20 odd years back. Took some pounding and bending to get the cut right. Then its a 10 minute job and no problems with the lock bolt. Its actually easier then messing with the lock bolt once the rod is made.
Remove all rod pipes before use.

[m1garand_man]

If you do go ahead and drill out vs routing out the hole how do you get a bit in there? I can't imagine using a 20 something inch long bit but comming in at any angle seems to be asking for trouble.

[smallpatch]

M1,
Actually, you're talking a 48" plus drill bit.  AND that is how they're drilled.  The length of the barrel, plus!
Also, the more you try to slim down the profile of a stock, the more it becomes an issue.  I've gone as low as 1/16" for a web..... doesn't leave much room for a lock bolt, so something has to give. 
Barrel, ramrod, lock bolt...... sometimes all three.
Isn't gun building a real eye opener?

[Robby]

I made one of this scraping rods that Dan shows, works like a champ!
Robby

[AMartin]

What smallpatch said .... I do this intentional .

Notch front bolt on every gun .. almost .

Allen

[smallpatch]

You know the Busty Brunette had both treatments.  Tapered rod, notched lock bolt........ and boy is she pretty because of it!!!!