Carving critique

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have to agree with Mike Brooks...you likely have lots of wood, so rasp it off, scrape it smooth and finish it without carving.  Your rifle appears to be well built, if the butt plate inlet is any evidence.  That carving seriously takes away from the rifles grace and charm.

[Mauser06]

Thanx for all the info!   That's what makes this site what it is! 



Most of the gun I am happy with....I probably shouldn't have carved it at all..that's where it went down hill lol.  I started with molding the forend...it was completed and shaped first.  Drew and scribed a nice line and ran my V gouge down it lightly.  I need to learn to read maple grain. I'm getting better at feeling it before it gets too late..but the forend, ya...there's a few waves I can't do much about as the line is getting too high and the wood is too thin. I can live with it.


The rest of the build... inletting and shaping and such..I feel better about. Not 100% perfect but for my first longrifle, I'm happy. Can't learn if you dont jump in. 

Same goes with posting work...some would wonder why I would post stuff knowing its not right....but I learn a ton from it and it'll make me better.

[Mauser06]

Also ordered the Wallace Gusler video. I believe he used a V gouge. I know stabbing is said to be easier. I enjoy the V gouge. Though if I can't "get it" I will have to change my ways. 



Also, that piece of maple I have...I should have known not to try carving it. Very weird piece of wood.  I should have left it alone and practiced more and gotten a harder stock to carve next time. My tools aren't dull....they are properly sharpened and diamond lapped and touched up regularly.  Some of it cuts real nice.  Others it's softer and/or grain changes. Probably wouldn't be an issue if I had more experience.  Not a good piece to try to learn on.

[TommyG]

My first gun I carved was absolutely hideous.  Second one much better.  One thing everyone who is on this site that has carved a gun has in common is they all had a first gun carved.  Some are probably better than others, but the point is you need to start somewhere.  As others have offered you great advice, mine would be to keep at it, and you will improve with each build as you seemed determined and possess the right attitude.  So rasp it off & redo, or tweak/refine it the way is or just leave the gun with no carving - either way you learned from it and I don't think the Turkeys you will be huntin' will be spooked by it either way.

[Mauser06]

The turkeys certainly won't mind. They aughta feel lucky to be blasted by such a gun. They could be killed by some piece of plastic Gizmo! Lol.



Monday I will trim the pins and hit the range after my morning hunt (with a different flintlock) and hopefully get her dialed in.  I already have a solid knowledge on the barrel so finding a load aughta be pretty easy...the last one was forgiving and threw good patterns with most loads..get the sights filed...clean her up and enjoy the season with my white gun.  And hope the turkeys don't mind.  My field pics may look a little funny...but me and my a turkey Fowler will have a story to tell.

After the season, or after my tags are filled, I will finished the build one way or another. Probably will rasp off the carving and restart.  I may try to clean up what I have and see if I can salvage it. Funny a few comments said it's not an appropriate carving...I must have done real bad because it was mostly traced from a known Beck lol. So that makes me feel like maybe I did completely miss.

[n stephenson]

Mauser06, You got some good feedback. I think your on the right track, by waiting!  As you stated , take some time , it`s not like you have a deadline. Learning 18th century art , is not the easiest thing in the world. My suggestion is simple, draw , draw , draw , then draw some more. Paper is cheap. Copy known designs until they look like they should.  Starting with a nicely drawn design will make your result much better. Have Fun!!  Nate

[Goo]

Here is link to a company that sells drafting supplies, very helpful to draw precise lines and curves when you have drawing tools.  A caveat being when deciding to pay money for templates accuracy matters not all templates have accuratly marked centers and standard mathematically correct curves so get good ones.  Also remember that there are different standard scale drawing tools architectural scale and engineering scale tools.   Architectural breaks down foot increments into standard inches for scale drawings Engineering scale breaks down feet into 10ths more like decimals. So you have a choice      https://www.engineersupply.com/drafting-equipment.aspx

[Long John]

Mauser,

I am late to the party, here, I've been tied-up on other stuff.

When I first saw you photos I had the following thoughts:
1. this looks like the first piece of wood this fellow has carved
2. this is the first effort at drawing out a carving
3. the tools are not sharp enough

Before you undertake to carve a gun you should expect to carve your final design on a dozen scraps of wood that you can use for firewood.  Before you undertake to carve your first piece of wood you should expect to draw at least a dozen designs, some you will like and some you won't, before you cut any wood.  The more you draw the better you will get at it.  And finally, before you can carve your tools have to be razor sharp.  If you can't shave the hair off the back of your hand with the chisels you plan to use,  you need to re-sharpen them.  If the chisels care what direction the wood grain is going they aren't sharp.

If you can make it to the Gunmakers' Fair at Dixons come by the ALR tent and we will show you what we mean.

Best Regards,

JMC
John Cholin

[smallpatch]

Please view Jim Kiblers carving post.  That's what I meant about design.

[Pukka Bundook]

I'm just wondering how the poor bloke in post #1 is going to cope with the advise given him in 34 posts..

Not to say the advise is not Good, but still has to be handled.

[WadePatton]

...  Some of it cuts real nice.  Others it's softer and/or grain changes. Probably wouldn't be an issue if I had more experience.  Not a good piece to try to learn on.

Softer wood will challenge your sharpest edges. That's how cutting on "lesser" woods can help you develop your technique for the softer places found in some appropriate stockwoods.  I too thought your tools weren't sharp when I first saw your first efforts. Then, reading more I gathered that it was as much techique/expereince as unsharpness. It's all connected.

Something no one has mentioned here with regard to drawing-and took me years to find/hear about (because my "formal" art training was one class in 8th grade) is the mathematical (mathmagical) characteristics of our scrolls. You might be quite aware of this, but I'm betting some are not--as I wasn't until just a few years ago.  It's the "golden mean" which might be best introduced in this Disney production with DD in Mathmagic Land.  I only recently stumbled across this gem from "way back".  I don't care much for Disney, but this one is good.

And just the other day when laying block, I caught the block master using Pythagorean rules to check square. Old Py was a sharp fella.




 Also known as "Fibonacci"

[Jerry V Lape]

I started just like you and spent most of 6 months practicing on scraps 0f maple before attempting my first stock.  It isn't something I will ever post on line.  I then paid to attend a 3 day carving class with two instructors both were good and one is considered the best there is by many.  In three days I learned tons and saved a lot of expensive stock wood from being wasted more than the cost of a class.  The classes will do so much for you.  Spend the cost of one good stock blank and get proper instruction.  Now carving is the most enjoyable part.   

[Stophel]

No one has before mentioned the "Golden Mean" probably because many here pay no attention to it (and it's not a favorite subject).   

I would say to practice your drawing a LOT before ever even thinking about practicing your carving.  I know, I HATE practicing anything.  I can't stand working for "nothing", and I want to just DO it and jump in head first.  But, it's not the best way to go.... and I have a lot of ruined stuff to prove it!

That said, carving and drawing are art.  Art requires talent.  Skills can be learned, and talent can be refined, but the natural artistic foundation must be there to begin with.  Despite the "you can do anything you set your mind to" philosophy so popular today, not everyone can do good drawing or carving (or singing, or playing violin, or making furniture, or painting portraits,  or designing bridges, or...).  Of course, the same thing could have been said 250 years ago.  And not all gunsmiths were that great at one aspect or another of their craft.  Honestly, some of their carving and engraving stinks  pretty badly.    

[Mauser06]

I appreciate all the info! 




On a better note.....she fires like a champ and didn't blow apart lol. 



Still working with the pattern.  Thought 6" shorter than my last barrel wouldn't make a difference and it would surely like one of the loads I had worked up in the 44". 


Boy was I wrong lol. 


Ignition is instant.    Recoil is much worse than my other gun...but, it's like 2.25lbs lighter too. 


I'm happy with it's ignition though...it'll be a turkey killer....and to me, that's more important than the carving right now lol.

[Mauser06]

Sneak peak





Took some advice given and I'm glad I did.  Might not be perfect..but I think it's better.  Should look better after I'm done finishing. 


Just wanted to say thanx to everyone for the advice...I aspire to become a decent gun stocker.  I can't do that if I don't learn and a good way to learn is have your work critiqued.  I will post the entire rifle when it's done for critiques. My next build is from a plank.

[Ky-Flinter]

M06,

Your carving has improved by leaps and bounds.  Way to go!  There is room for improvement, but there always is for us apprentices.    If you don't have them already, I would suggest you get one (or more) of the newer long rifle books or CD's from the KRA that show antiques in color.  Study the carving, it will improve your designs/layout.  Or heck, copy it.  And keep practicing.  Looking forward to seeing her finished.

-Ron

[Mauser06]

Thanx Ron.  I do have a few of the KRA discs.  I need to decide on a good book with good pics of carving. I think it'll help. 

This carving should look better when it's actually finished.  Looks a bit rougher than it is because the first coat of oil was about half dry at the time. 

I spent a couple weeks drawing and erasing..study carving, drawing and erasing.  I tried actually copying actual scale carvings and just couldn't get anything to look right.  I actually drew that myself...pretty common carving which gave me plenty of examples to study.

I was running out of wood and couldn't do much more with what I had. Actually have to file down the buttplate to get enough wood lol...

 I think I will be very happy with my first attempt at a longrifle.  I am still enjoying the work and you guys are stuck with me! Lol. Seriously... without you guys I would still be hunting with a TC Hawken and thinking none of this is possible for me. I appreciate all the help I get and really do try to put it to work.   

[flinchrocket]

The KRA disc's are really good. You can put them on your PC and crop the pic and print a few copy's.
Use a drawing book and carbon paper and draw it a few times by tracing it,then try it free hand.
Before long you will pick up on the different elements of the carving and will help you a lot.