Question about Ram Rods for the Historians Among Us

[davec2]

I was replacing a ram rod recently that had a crack developing.  As I was selecting a new blank from a pile of hickory rods I had purchased quite some time ago, I was ruminating on what I would have done to replace a ram rod far out on the frontier in, oh let's say, the 1770's, if I broke one.....or perhaps, in a moment of distraction, shot it away.  I'm not sure, but I doubt that a frontiersman would have carried a spare rod.....a little cumbersome to carry around a four foot long skinny stick.  I was just wondering if any of you have come across any contemporary accounts of a guy in the woods having to improvise a replacement ram rod...

Thanks

[okieboy]

 Your question reminds me of the accounts of Indians running buffalo on horseback reloading by spitting a naked ball down the barrel, giving the gun jolt down on the saddle and keeping the muzzle up until ready to fire. So one emergency ploy might be not patching the ball, not good but....

[rich pierce]

No accounts at hand but I think I recall orders for trade rifles including a wiping stick. Depending on where s fella was, a limber hardwood sapling could be trimmed  on the spot to pad with. Around here I’d use dogwood.

[Robby]

Osier would work if there was some around. Just about any green wood sapling could be lopped off, split out and shaved down right quick with just a hunting knife.
Robby

[T*O*F]

I once broke a ramrod at the 1st station of a trail walk.  I was shooting a .62 rifle.  I scrounged up a suitable sapling and within 5 minutes had it worked down to a workable ramrod.  That doesn't answer your question about documentation, but field expediency did exist back then.

[Robert Wolfe]

I have an old civil war era musket that had been crudely converted into a 20 gauge shotgun. It has a ramrod made from a small sapling cleaned up with a knife. Still has bits of bark on it. The ramrod has been with the gun since at least the 1930's when my grandma baught if from an old farmer.

[Hungry Horse]

Many of the frontiersmen did indeed carry an extra ramrod. There are several paintings and drawings of them. They were stored in the barrel, and had leather wangs attached to the protruding end. The muzzle was pointed toward the ground, and the gun pulled upward, while standing on the leather wang.

 Hungry Horse

[45-110]

if I was was trapping in the Blackfoot country say around Three forks MT. in the day, I surely would not have my bore "plugged" with a spare rod that I had to step on a thong to remove. one read of Colter's experiences may dispel carrying  a spare that way. much safer to make one as needed.
kw

[Hungry Horse]

Alfred Jacob Miller mentioned the practice, and recorded it in his artwork several times so it wasn’t an isolated incident. Paintings of some Eastern Indian warriors also show this practice. And if timing was that perilous, would an enemy be less dead being shot through with a ramrod, and a ball, than the ball alone? If a workable ramrod could be made from a green switch, why did the old timers split out hardwood blanks and carefully rive them down to form a ramrod?

  Hungry Horse

[rollingb]

ROCKY MOUNTAIN LIFE

 BY RUFUS B. SAGE.

"Pursuing a westerly course, nearly parallel with the Kansas, for three successive days, we passed the 14th encamped at Big Vermilion, for the purpose of procuring a quantity of hickory for gun-sticks and bow-timber. Hickory is unknown to the Rocky Mountains, and this being the last place on the route affording it, each of our company took care to provide himself with an extra gun-stick. Small pieces, suitable for bows, find market among the mountain Indians, ranging at the price of a robe each, while gun-sticks command one dollar apiece, from the hunters and trappers."

[ddoyle]

I have a book/reference some where that indicates replacing OEM wooden ram rods with Iron/Metal ones was priority one for a new trade musket owner. Might mean that wllow and spruce made poor replacements for what ever came from the Factory. Not a direct answer to the question but maybe an indication that some people in some places were dissatisfied with what they could aquire in the bush. Acces to good Bow wood as mentioned above was something that many wars were fought over.   

[Clark Badgett]

I would wonder what a 3/8" iron rod would do to the feel of a trade gun. Might have to investigate it.

[axelp]

I replaced the ramrod in my short english rifle with a brass one. It gave the gun more weight forward and it holds better on target. For a long rifle, it might throw too much weight forward, but maybe not. Many original guns were muzzle heavy, even heavier in general, or so I have been told.

[Daryl]

ROCKY MOUNTAIN LIFE

 BY RUFUS B. SAGE.

"Pursuing a westerly course, nearly parallel with the Kansas, for three successive days, we passed the 14th encamped at Big Vermilion, for the purpose of procuring a quantity of hickory for gun-sticks and bow-timber. Hickory is unknown to the Rocky Mountains, and this being the last place on the route affording it, each of our company took care to provide himself with an extra gun-stick. Small pieces, suitable for bows, find market among the mountain Indians, ranging at the price of a robe each, while gun-sticks command one dollar apiece, from the hunters and trappers."

nice find

[rollingb]

ROCKY MOUNTAIN LIFE

 BY RUFUS B. SAGE.

"Pursuing a westerly course, nearly parallel with the Kansas, for three successive days, we passed the 14th encamped at Big Vermilion, for the purpose of procuring a quantity of hickory for gun-sticks and bow-timber. Hickory is unknown to the Rocky Mountains, and this being the last place on the route affording it, each of our company took care to provide himself with an extra gun-stick. Small pieces, suitable for bows, find market among the mountain Indians, ranging at the price of a robe each, while gun-sticks command one dollar apiece, from the hunters and trappers."

nice find

Thanks 

[Craig Wilcox]

Way back when....
I started shooting black powder rifles in 1959, with an original Springfield .58 cal rifle.  We went to many, many target shoots at Camp A. P. Hill, Ft. Meade, and various other places in Virginia and Maryland.
Eight of us would be on a team, and many times there were upwards of 20 to 25 teams firing at once.  This means between 160 and 200 men, women, and young ones (I was 14 when I started with this) shooting at one time, 100 yd targets.
I cannot count how many times one of those steel ramrods went flying towards the targets!  We did say that didn't count for scoring.

[Pukka Bundook]

I know you didn't ask, but if I was going out west trapping back then, I'd have  a pack with  maybe half a dozen roughed out hickory or ash rods.
Six would travel better than one, and the odd one could be traded if needs be.
That way one could be finished out in a  night.  Knife would scrape it down and a rock with groove would polish it enough to work.
Carrying these would be no problem compared to iron traps, etc.
To me it just makes sense.

R.

[jerrywh]

 In my studies of the western fur trappers and Indians, I fount a few references to ram rods. In one Oregon trail diary there was a mention of the men carrying their Ramrods in the barrel with a patch on the end. There was a warning not to forget to remove the rod in case of a sudden reason for use.  I think the purpose was to keep mud and dirt out of the barrel as they were carrying the guns barrel down at times. Another time in the Journals of Peter Scene Ogden or Joe Meek they mentioned sitting around the fire at night and making punk while cleaning their rifles with wiping sticks.  I got the impression that the wiping sticks were different than a loading Rod.
   It took me a long time to figure out what making punk was. Who can tel me how they did it? It was chard cotton cloth.

[WadePatton]

... and making punk while cleaning their rifles with wiping sticks.  I got the impression that the wiping sticks were different than a loading Rod.
   It took me a long time to figure out what making punk was. Who can tel me how they did it? It was chard cotton cloth.

...

As to ramrods (like Rowdy) I use the terms wipin', packin', loadin', interchangeably in front of "stick" as reference to "ramrod" as we generally call it these days. Am I wrong? Maybe some regional variations?

I'd be inclined to keep a ready stave or a few blanks on hand, but of course would use whatever possible to keep one in the ready state.

And I'd write a lot about it. You know for the historians of tomorrow/today, save 'em a lot of guess work.   

(oh i see by other replies I missed the question, was about punk not charcloth)

[Pukka Bundook]

Punk was generally rotted wood, that will hold a spark well. 

Some types of punk wood will hold a spark without charring, as will some fungus.
I think a wiping stick is a cleaning rod, and different from the rammer.   I talked with Mark Baker on this, and sent him some excerpts on them. 
Rammers, rammer -rods and ramrods usually being named as such. 

All the best,
R.

[jerrywh]

 Punk was made with a fire bow and a board. The same way you start a fire with a bow drill.   Instead of starting the fire they just sea sawed with the drill and made punk.  The punk was the very fine burnt saw dust that accumulated from using the fire drill. They kept it in a small container just as we do char cloth. 

[Pukka Bundook]

Jerry,

I have also seen reference to punk wood, which is dry rotted wood.  Very tinder-like.
Your way makes more sense when they sat making it on a night though!

All the best, and yes, it Would help if one term only meant one thing!....   

All best,
Richard.

[Elnathan]

Well, I looked up "punk" Johnson's 18th century dictionary and in Noah Websters 1828 dictionary, and both define "punk" as a lady of, ah, negotiable virtue. "Spunk," on the other hand, is defined as a "touchwood; rotten wood; a slang term for spirit or animation" by Johnson, and "touchwood; a wood that readily takes fire," as well as  a hot temper, by Webster. Webster does suggest that "spunk" originally came from "punk," but doesn't make the connection clear.

By the 1880 edition of Webster's dictionary "punk" can mean either 1) a fungus or touchwood, or 2) the kind of girl you don't take home to Mother.

I don't know if any of that is helpful, but since I spent a considerable amount of time downloading and looking through dictionaries, it seems a shame not to post it.

[jerrywh]

 Years ago I experimented with many different types of raw materials attempting to find some material tha tcould be used in place of char cloth.  I never found anything that would take a spark.   

[Pukka Bundook]

Jerry,

Cat -tails will, and  a sort of fungus that looks like gingery rotted wood. I'd have to look up the name.

It may have been a German sight where I heard about it, but found some here in Canada.

Will get back to you when I find the info.

R.