North West Star Chief's Grade LH trade musket?

[Canuck Bob]

I'm a new member and BP shooter.  My only rifle is a LH Lyman .54 Deerstalker flintlock. It is my desire to pursue a LH build after researching Trade guns, late flint English sporting rifles, and Canadian gunsmith's guns.  I started on this a few years ago but circumstances of health sidelined shooting for some time.

My first question is regarding the LH Chief's musket NWS used to sell.  I was going to order a kit and sure wish I had now.  In the literature it was marketed as a historically correct LH trade gun.  Does anyone know the details of this original or other LH trade examples?

[Mike Brooks]

I know of one, French, probably 1750ish. Any left handed gun was extremely rare in the 18th century. I don't think I have ever seen a English left handed gun made for the indian trade.

[Bigmon]

I was going to ask if there really were any left handed guns available in the 18th century??  Perhaps , I thought, custom made, but mass produced military??
But Mike has answered that.
But when I watch the History Channel I see them all the time?  Sort of one of my pet peeves!
Would they have ever made trade guns for lefties?  Didn't they think lefties were of "the devil" or something like that?
Just asking, not saying??

[Justin Urbantas]

Where are you located Bob? I'm in BC

[Canuck Bob]

Where are you located Bob? I'm in BC

Calgary, newly retired, you?

Bob

[Justin Urbantas]

I'm in Kamloops. I'm only 32, so just getting started.

[jerrywh]

 It has been my bobby to study Indian culture for most of my life since the third grade. However I have mostly concentrated on the western tribes.  Some Indians were born left handed but it was the custom to tie their left had behind their back until they learned to be right handed.  Therefore where were no left handed Indians at least in the western tribes. There was a reason for this and it had to do with the weapons they used and the way they mounted their horses more than anything.  As a result there is no proof to my knowledge that a left handed trade gun ever existed and there probably never was one.  That doesn't stop you from having one or making one. 
to heck with PC.

[Goo]

I have heard a rumor that RR thimbles on original trade guns were not pinned into the stock.  Rather the mortise was cut through the fore stock into the barrel channel and the thin metal of the RR thimbles were splayed out to hold the thimbles in place.    How many of these accurate kits have cast RR thimbles?

[Old Salt]

I have always thought that when you went to have a gun made rifle or smoothbore that you could order it made  any way you wanted at lest untill they started making them and sending to some else to sell.

[Mike Brooks]

I have always thought that when you went to have a gun made rifle or smoothbore that you could order it made  any way you wanted at lest untill they started making them and sending to some else to sell.

Trade guns came in from England by the crate full. There were no options. You just bought what was offered.

[Mike Brooks]

I have heard a rumor that RR thimbles on original trade guns were not pinned into the stock.  Rather the mortise was cut through the fore stock into the barrel channel and the thin metal of the RR thimbles were splayed out to hold the thimbles in place.    How many of these accurate kits have cast RR thimbles?

I have seen them done both ways. depended on the grade most often.

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks everyone, research has revealed that the Trade Gun was a powerful tool in the development of Canadian history but LH flint only.  An auction site picture of a 1870's Barnett helped in visualizing a true late flint, bridled lock. 

I live in the buffalo prairie of southern Alberta so I feel short horseback buffalo muskets are in order, seems 30" is HC.  Also my family homestead is in Cree Lessor Slave Lake country in the bush and they trapped well into the 70's and most are metis. To honor my country and family a trade musket is in order.  We sure aren't English sporting types.  Also I am developing a persona, even though it feels a little silly.

Being a lefty it will hardly be a HC correct musket after this thread. I'll call it a 20 foot tribute.  I will stay true to form and function though. 

[ddoyle]

I do not believe much of the anti lefty rhetoric,

 If I was raising warriors I would prefer a left handed student and would value every lefty warrior I could muster! Ever boxed a lefty?  We spar with Right handers almost exclusively but it is a rare rigth hander who gets practice with a lefty. Ever tried to skulk with a musket when the wall is on your right shoulder? 10 guys marcing in file sure leave a gap on thier right flank unless they have a lefty sprinkled in the line.  You'd think it would be easier to train an ambitextrous warrior then to reform a single handed man.

If you are looking to recreate a Metis trapper in Southern Alberta you got alot of options and alot of arch evidence to look to.  An HBC trade musket would be an option but so would cheap guns from the American whiskey traders. Depending on the time period there were also alot of commercial options.  As well the European Fathers and Mothers brought something with them before there was a Metis Nation.

The rebellion battle fields were sprinkled with flints on one side and gatling gun cartridges on the other.

The most exciting part of Metis culture is the embrodery and tufting and thier unequaled sense of style, grace and prescene. I'd put 90% of my time toward clothing, musical instruments, toys and just grab whatever musket comes your way.  When your ready for accoutrments I have a Metis horn that you can have a photo of. I'll need some pics of your Flower work in exchange.

Finest people this continent ever spawned- R.I.P Wandering Spirit

[Mike Brooks]

It's very easy to shoot a right handed gun left handed, in fact, I can't tell the difference.

[rich pierce]

I agree one should get what they want. But keep in mind that everyone shooting a double barreled rifle or shotgun ends up shooting an other-handed gun.

[rollingb]

Below is a partial list of trade goods from an invoice of merchandise shipped on board S.B. Diana C.M. Halstead Master bound for the upper Missouri River and consigned for account and risk of upper Missouri outfit 1835 under mark in the margin,.....

50 dz Bright oval fire steels
3 dz iron tablespoons
3 dz iron teaspoons
3 screw plates
24 bunches black barly corn heads
25 bunches red barly corn heads
1115 1/2 lb blue pound beads
758 lb chalk white beads
80 lb black white beads
205 lb yellow - 285 pound
256 lb ruby white beads
150 lb deep blue pound beads in bunches of 2 lb each
358 lb black pound beads
100 N.W. guns 30 to 42 inches
2 pr Octagon Brass barrel pistols
10 pr plain iron barrel pistols
1 pr super twist barrel pistols
50 battle axes
20 gro hunters clay pipes
12 dz patent blk ears ea B
2 packs tinned rivets 1"
2 packs tinned rivets 1 1/2"
1 pack tinned rivets 2"
2 copper soldering irons
25 @ tin ( ? ) best solder

..... you'll notice the lack of description pertaining to RH or LH locks on the N.W. guns, yet the guns were described as being readily available with 30" to 42" barrels.

Personally,.... the lack of choice regarding locks, leads me to believe they were available with RH locks only.

Other research regarding N.W. guns, have shown similar results, except occasionally we see this particular type of gun had a stated (western fur trade) value of $4.50 @ during the 1820's-30's. 

[jerrywh]

 MW guns were sold to the Indians mostly by Hudson Bay co. and a lot of trappers for 20 beaver skins.

[Canuck Bob]

It's very easy to shoot a right handed gun left handed, in fact, I can't tell the difference.

This fact is verified in thread after thread on the net.  By accepting the fact trade guns were RH and lefties just dealt with it would put me in touch with a historical reality, decisions, decisions.

[Greg Pennell]

It never hurts to be proficient from either shoulder...just takes some practice.

Greg