Ram Rod question

[Dennis Glazener]

Seeing the other topic regarding ram rods made me think about this again. Did early PA rifles normally have the ram rod brass tip showing on the muzzle end? I am not trying to start an argument as to which way a RR should be placed in the thimbles but I seriously am curious about how original ram rods were stored in the thimbles. 

I don't think I have ever seen, what I thought was an original ram rod, that was designed to be inserted so the brass tip would be showing. Of course most of my dealings with original rifles have been on southern guns and we southerners have been known to have our own way of doing thing

Just curious,
Dennis

[Goo]

I know little about this but..... If the RR is at all tapered and the brass tip is on the skinny end I would say the brass tip goes in first.

[jerrywh]

 It is only my opinion but I think Ramrods were replaced so often that probably nobody knows what was in the gun originally.  probably both

[Eric Kettenburg]

I've seen a few pieces that sure do seem to carry the original rod.  Of course any of them could be early replacements, made well.

FWIW the rod on the Marshall rifle sure looks to be original, or at the least a very early in-period replacement if not original.

Anyway, it's my impression based upon such pieces that for a typical well-made rifle, the rod is generally tapered with a threaded inner fitting of iron and an outer brass fitting that generally seems to match up with the length of the muzzle cap.

[Lucky R A]

     When you walk around the displays  at the KRA show, the vast majority of ramrods exhibit no ramrod tip brass or iron showing.   On originals that I have worked on I often find a tapered relatively long inner rod tip that will accept attachments, few have upper tips. 
Ron

[blienemann]

Hi Dennis,

Bethlehem gunshop records from the mid 1750's include "fitting brass loops to ramrods".  Several original 1774 - 75 Oerter rifles carry brass tips at their near bore size muzzle end to protect the rod in loading, plus a long, tapered iron tip at the breech end threaded for a scraper or worm, as Eric and Ron have mentioned.  This combination seems to have been tradition in those two shops, and may have carried over from German rifles that often have a horn tip at their muzzle end.

I have not seen records for other shops, so don't know how common or widespread this was.  Bob

[Daryl]

I don't know if this is true with rifles, but every shotgun with original rods that I have seen, have the small end inside the stock threaded & usually
with a worm already attached, screwed on back wards.

[Jim Kibler]

RCA #42 has a rod with an exposed brass tip that appears original to the rifle. 

[Dennis Glazener]

Hi Dennis,

Bethlehem gunshop records from the mid 1750's include "fitting brass loops to ramrods".  Several original 1774 - 75 Oerter rifles carry brass tips at their near bore size muzzle end to protect the rod in loading, plus a long, tapered iron tip at the breech end threaded for a scraper or worm, as Eric and Ron have mentioned.  This combination seems to have been tradition in those two shops, and may have carried over from German rifles that often have a horn tip at their muzzle end.

I have not seen records for other shops, so don't know how common or widespread this was.  Bob

Bob,
Thanks, that's interesting. Practical German engineering (rod protection)
Dennis

[Stophel]

What I find amazing is the dearth of American rifles with flared upper tips on their ramrods (and no provision for one in the nosecap). Something I consider absolutely essential.  Trying to pinch and pull out a straight tipped ramrod with sweaty, dirty fingers can be infuriatingly difficult at times.  It seems very rare to find an American long rifle with a ramrod with an appreciably flared tip (or a nosecap cut to accomodate one). 

For example, if you have photos of the Oerter griffon rifle, you will see a possibly original ramrod tip.  A brass tube pinned on the end of the rod... a straight brass tube.  And since the nosecap is grooved to closely fit a straight rod, you couldn't put a flared tip on the rod even if you wanted to.

[Candle Snuffer]

Here's a question. Did the old civilian muzzle loading rifles and smooth bores of yesteryear even have ramrod tips? Perhaps they did their cleaning with just a patch puller/worm that twisted onto the tapered end of their muzzle loader's ramrod? Are the brass tips with 8/32 and 10/32 thread a more modern invention for our - jag, breech scraper, patch puller, and ball puller? Something to think about...

[Pukka Bundook]

Candle snuffer,

Original ramrods with metal both ends, and one end threaded for cleaning and ball pulling tools, goes back to the early 1500's that I know of.






The above photos are of a gun from the 1520's.