Do you shoot with your ramrod on or off the gun?

[m1garand_man]

In my quest for accuracy I have come across a topic that started as a question to my self. Should I be shooting with my ramrod in or out of the stock for optimal accuracy?

I researched this and saw a variety of answers online. Guys seem to be split 50/50 which makes me feel that what ever effects on harmonics that occur due to the ram rod are dependant on the rifle itself and probably how securely the ram rod fits.

I haven't tested this out yet but that will be my next project along with testing swis 1.5f powder.

As of now I have found two patch and ball combos that give consistent results at 100y. My target velocity is 1800fps and with 80gr of 2f Olde Eynesford I'm 50fps above that.

I have changed my sights and slotted my underlugs for what that was worth (didn't see any appreciable change)

I'm still getting all my shots in a 10 to 15 round string into 8" or less at 100y but I'd love to see that shrink by 50% so I can feel confident hunting this fall with the gun. At 60y I only hit a 6" gong about 75% from a field rest position which I feel is unacceptable.

So that brings me to the question of whether or not you shoot with your ram rod on the gun and what effect if any have you seen?

[Mike Brooks]

Rod in gun for me, never tried with out so I can't say there's a difference.

[Dennis Glazener]

Rod in gun, don't want to get used to shooting with it out being in place, might not catch that I left it in the bore by accident!
Dennis

[iloco]

Rod in gun is how I been doing it for 48 yrs.

[PPatch]

I always shoot with the ramrod in place.

dave

[alyce-james]

Ramrod in proper place. shooting this method, 1974 to date. AJ.

[Hungry Horse]

Saw a T/C Hawken shot without ramrod many years ago at a shoot. About the fourth shot the guy didn’t notice that the barrel key had fallen out. Without the ramrod as a secondary safety the barrel narrowly missed the shooters head, when it came flying out of the stock. I never shoot without replacing the ramrod.

 Hungry Horse

[WadePatton]

Same as others here.

'cept that one time, when it was in the bore. 

[Sharpsman]

Harmonics!! Lordy Lordy!

I do believe that there's a whole lot what might pertain to high powder center fire shooting that just doesn't apply to ML and blackpowder shooting!

I shoot with the RR in place where it should be....in my opinion!

[Eric Krewson]

If I am deer hunting on a stand I take it out, it doesn't take much bumping on one of my blinds for the ramrod to go "tink" in the pipes,  I can't have that noise when I an swinging on a deer. I have had to make a trip back in to my blind after dark to retrieve the ramrod I forgot to reinstall.

I take the ramrod out at the range as well, it is only in the way and I use a range rod exclusively for for my shooting there.

[stubshaft]

Rod in gun here too.

[TommyG]

Always in place.  Put too much darn work into finishing the forestock/rod channel to booger it up without the rod in place whilst loading, shooting, hunting, etc.  Load at the range or shoots with a range rod.  Actually only use the gun's ramrod if a second shot is needed when hunting.

[Pukka Bundook]

Rod in place..

Harmonics don't come into it with a great stiff iron/ steel barrel.   A rod won't have any effect on it.   
Been "Rod in" since 1970.

Cheers,
R.

[smylee grouch]

I shoot rod in unless I want to use the rod to help steady my shake in some hunting situations, which has happened more than once. 

[Don Steele]

Looks like I'm definitely in the minority here. At the range, I shoot with the ramrod out. I use a dedicated "Range Rod" for all of my non-hunting shooting.
If I'm hunting, it's ramrod "in".
As to harmonic effects...I'm wondering if anyone has done a valid side-by-side test of the opinions expressed regarding the potential for the presence or absence of the ramrod to affect either group integrity or P.O.I., or if they are just "opinions" ??

[m1garand_man]

Most of the guys who saw a difference on the other forum I was researching were seeing it with modern muzzleloaders. Obviously those plastic stocked abortions may experience some issues with harmonics when the rod is hanging directly off the barrel. Some of the guys were having issues with accuracy shooting with thier palm savers on. Maybe it's just an issue perticular to that type of rifle.

The idea came up for me whole watching some videos of Mr flintlock George Sutton shooting some of his trick shots with the ramrod out. 

[deepcreekdale]

I need to remember this. Next time I screw the pooch at a match, I can say I left my ram rod in and it screwed up my harmonics.

[smallpatch]

+1 deep creek,
Do we believe for one minute that one of our ancestors would walk thru the woods, see a deer or whatever, then pull his ramrod to take the shot, because it's "more accurate ".
Seems like we may be overthinking this one.
Of course they didn't use range rods either.

[Daryl]

Rod - in - pipes - always. Like Sharpsman says - HARMINICS (the big H must be the same, shot to shot)
If you want to shoot with the rod out of the pipes, develop your load & sight in your rifle that way, rod out of the pipes.

When loading the second shot for my first 14 bore moose, I just dropped the rod after removing it from the bore.
Time was of the essence, the shot was not needed quickly, but was needed.
The second shot hit perfectly, offhand at just over 100yards.

I would not trust that on a bullseye target when "ALL" of the BEANS are up for grabs.
There just MIGHT be a difference in poi or accuracy quality - so if interested in pin-point accuracy, one should do everything exactly the same.

This is all part and parcel with the "CONSISTENCY" rule.

[hanshi]

Hunting in the bush, the rod stays on the rifle until needed.  Having it already out does nothing for speed if a second shot is needed.  So far I can't recall ever needing a second shot to anchor a deer.  If it's down, but not out, I reload for a "coup de grace".  Mostly, any second shot is for another deer; and this has ocurred quite a number of times.  At the range it stays in the rifle if I'm using a range rod.  I frequently check the ability of the wood rod to easily and safely seat prb.  At the range yesterday all loading was with the skinny wood rod on my .36.  It worked perfectly.  And this was a fairly tight load of .350" ball and .023" heavy canvas patches.  This gives .010"-.012" compression in the grooves.

[m1garand_man]

I suppose I have my consensus.

I'm still not sure if pursuing 4" or smaller groups at 100y is a fools errand or not yet with my rifle. A lot of time spent at the range will eventually tell.

[axelp]

a lot of time at the range, is never a fools errand... have fun. the more you shoot, the more you get to know your gun.

[Daryl]

I totally agree with the practice.  Practice is vital to having a positive experience.

[alacran]

I have a flint offhand target rifle that has a partial ramrod. Just enough to protect the RR channel. I always use a range rod with this rifle. I have a cross stick/ chunk gun rifle that the ram rod comes out only in order to weigh it.
When shooting my hunting rifles at the range, or on a trail walk I always use the rod that is  in the gun.
I have shot elk anywhere from 20 yards to 85 yards, and deer about the same.
 8 inch groups at 100 yards with an open iron sighted hunting rifle is acceptable as long as you can maintain that consistently. I do prefer to get as close as possible to the game. Usually the longer shots afford you time to take a supported position but not always.
I practice 100 yards offhand shooting with my hunting rifles as well as my target guns.
It is important to know what your capable of. Also to know when to pass on a shot.

[wattlebuster]

Rod in gun for me. All my practice is for hunting shots an I for sure hunt with a ramrod in the gun