English percussion smoothbore

[Stuart Samuel]

Hi folks,

Thanks for digging such a lovely rabbit hole for me to fall into.

I didn't set out to do so, but I appear to have taken up collecting, or at least, it took me up. I picked this up at an antique market two weeks ago, and wondered if you can tell me anything about it, or recommend anywhere else I should be looking.

What I've got so far is a hit on 'Internet Gun Club', simply stating there was a W Squires in London, as well as a listing in the (deep breath) 'Official Catalogue of the Great Exhibition of the Works of Industry of All Nations 1851', for a "Squires, W. Cottage Grove, Mile End, Inv. and Manu. - New rifle, calculated to project a ball to a great distance with a small charge."

Anyway. Pictures, thousands of words.



















Lastly, any idea what's missing from that hole buttward from the... trigger plate? as shown in the second last photo. (Guessing at the terminology here)

[Mattox Forge]

Nice catch!

The missing piece is the rear sling stud. It was a wood screw  with an eye just like the one on the ram rod pipe.

Mike

[Stuart Samuel]

Thanks Mike! That was my best guess.
Nice to know I'm not completely out to lunch.

[Bob Roller]

Thanks Mike! That was my best guess.
Nice to know I'm not completely out to lunch.

The lock looks like a Swiss or German Schuetzen lock and the style is English on the
stock. Nice looking rifle.

Bob Roller

[Stuart Samuel]

Thanks, Bob, I thought so too.

I've never opened one of these up, but I've been working in lighting, including antiques, for about ten years, so I've got some experience with gently coercing things apart and then back together.
Is it likely to be worth the trouble to check the inside of the lock? Any risks (springs flying out, misalignment on reassembly, etc.) I should be warned about?

[Bob Roller]

Thanks, Bob, I thought so too.

I've never opened one of these up, but I've been working in lighting, including antiques, for about ten years, so I've got some experience with gently coercing things apart and then back together.
Is it likely to be worth the trouble to check the inside of the lock? Any risks (springs flying out, misalignment on reassembly, etc.) I should be warned about?

If the lock still works it is VERY doubtful if any parts will fall out or off of it.
Even if it doesn't work there is little chance of it coming apart.

Bob Roller

[Pukka Bundook]

Stuart,

It's a nice gun and has an unusual lock.

Perrins of Westminster made a similar shaped lock.   (Or had them made)
Yes, half cock the lock to dismount it from the stock, and show us some good photos of the "guts" and lock mortise.
Initials may be present (or full name ) of lock maker.
When re-mounting the lock, make sure trigger is pushed forward and lock on half cock, so sear does not catch trigger blade.

[Stuart Samuel]

Thanks for the advice, Pukka Bundook.
Hoping to get to it this weekend.

[Feltwad]

Enclosed is a similar design of lock which was patentee  by Bentley for his centre fire  percussion sxs
Feltwad
 Bentleys centre fire

[Stuart Samuel]

Photos!
No text, excepting a '150' to match that on the exterior.

[Stuart Samuel]

Thanks Feltwad, they do look quite similar.

[Bob Roller]

Photos!
No text, excepting a '150' to match that on the exterior.

That lock looks like a Brazier but it's not marked. There were a large number of lock filers
in Wolverhampton,England that made these styles of mechanisms.The 4th screw apparently
captures the sear spring which adds to the elegance of the mechanism.
Thank you for pulling this lock off the gun so we can all enjoy seeing such fine workmanship.
Bob Roller

[Pukka Bundook]

Very nice lock and inletting, Stuart.

I should look out a photo of the Perrins locks for comparison.

Bob,
I'm more used to seeing Brazier bar and back action locks. 
Can you tell me what I'm looking at on the tumbler?  I see a shadow over the  half bent, like where a fly would be on some rifle locks.

[Bob Roller]

It is a fly pretty much identical to those I make.It's easier to
find if dropped on the floor.

Bob Roller

[Stuart Samuel]

So, having addressed one of my curiosities...

The few people I've mentioned this to (a coworker who owns a few modern guns, etc.) have asked, quite reasonably, 'does it work?'

How do you folks decide if an antique is safe to shoot, and, whether it's... 'the right thing to do'?

[Pukka Bundook]

It was made to use, so if sound, use it I say.   All mine get used.   They're like dogs, they all enjoy going for a walk!

(If barrels ring nicely when suspended from a string and struck, they are sound)

[Stuart Samuel]

Thanks, Pukka (Bundook?), the stick test is nice and practical. 

The hole through the... nipple? looks pretty obstructed.
At a guess, am I better off trying to clean it in place, remove it for cleaning, or replace it?

[Pukka Bundook]

That nipple looks a bit wonky, I think I'd replace it for shooting.

Most times the correct thread can be found.  Never had to tap one out myself, but had a few I had to make to fit a certain gun.

Good luck!

[Longknife]

Stuart, FIRST thing to do is make sure it is not loaded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drop the ramrod in the bore and make sure that it goes to within 3/4 inch of the breech.....Ed

[Brent English]

Really nice high quality lock with a four screw bridle.  The fly makes me think it was originally intended for a rifle with set trigger rather than a smooth bore with single trigger.  I thought the plate was more Austrian in shape, but that's pretty close to locations other have mentioned.  Along with checking to make sure it isn't already loaded, drop a bore light down the muzzle and look for pits or flaws.  The over all condition of the guns is excellent, and the bore probably is too, but check it first. To the guys on this forum, it goes without saying to use black powder or a recognized substitute only if you attempt to shoot it, but it sounds like you're new to muzzle loading so I'm going to go ahead and say it. Do not use smokeless powder of any kind.  Nice gun !

[Stuart Samuel]

Thanks for your concern, Brent and Longknife.
Yes, despite how casually the seller handled it, I treated it like it was loaded, and had a good look over it when I got home. Appears clear right to the breech.
Good idea on the light, Brent, thanks. I don't have a bore light specifically, but I've got a pen light that'll probably fit, so I can get a better idea of it's condition.
And yes, I'm new to muzzle loading. Happy, the black/smokeless distinction was one of the things I'd heard before.