ddoyle's comment on brass pan chargers... ???

[ClaudeH]

doyle, regarding pan chargers:  "Accepted wisdom is that the brass commercial ones with the push nozzle are very dangerous."

Please tell me more!  I've just acquired my first flintlock firearm (and my second and third!  Might as well go in over my head!  ) and a brass pan charger to use with them.

I will soon load my first flintlock load.  What is the risk with the brass pan chargers?

[retired fella]

I have only seen a few in use and each time sets my teeth on edge.  I am referring to stringing them on a lanyard and hanging around the neck spout down.  Powder dust in the spout is an open invitation to a spark to ruin your day.  If you decide to use one, stick it in your hip pocket.

[hanshi]

I use them fairly often but carry them either in a bag or pocket.  Hunting will sometimes find me with a priming "flask" made from a deer legbone.

[Hungry Horse]

I agree they are a miniature pipe bomb in many cases. The push to pour valves are prone to accumulate powder on the nose of the spout. If you have to have one, get one made with a small powder flask valve, and make sure the body isn’t constructed like a pipe bomb. Look at every part of the priming flask like it is part of a grenade because it is. Thin horn, or soft soldered copper, are good. And don’t hang it from your bag, or even worse around your neck.

  Hungry Horse

[Shovelbuck]

Anybody have any factual documentation of one blowing up??  Somehow, I doubt it.

[Dennis Glazener]

Anybody have any factual documentation of one blowing up??  Somehow, I doubt it.

Well here is one. A friend of mine that runs a ML Supply company was working on an L&R Manton lock of mine. The lock didn't spark worth 2 cents and he offered to fix it for me. He thought he had fixed it and the next morning he was testing it again with a factor push valve primer head that was attached to a brass reservoir. While holding the lock in one hand and the priming tool in the other the priming tool exploded (from a stray spark from the lock) and blew off parts of his thumb and forefinger. Don't ever think it can't happen!! It can, it has and nothing much can be done about the resulting damage to my friends fingers.
Dennis

[James Rogers]

That's the one I know about as well

[ClaudeH]

Okay.  Now I see there is an indisputable danger.  But I haven't quantified it in my mind, yet.

Should I be afraid to use the Ted Cash charger at all?  I don't suppose it is that grave of a danger.

Putting it in a hip pocket is advised - and doable.  Is that safe enough?

Shirt pocket?

Bib pocket?

Lay it on the bench?

There are a lot of these things in use aren't there? 

[Shovelbuck]

Bottom line is we pursue a sport where we use things that can blow up! Use some common sense with what ever device you use in this sport. If we are to fret over every little possibility of what could happen or has happened only on rare occasions, we're in the wrong hobby. and should take up knitting. Oh wait, somebody will say you can put your eye out doing that! 
We stand a bigger chance getting electrocuted sitting in front of our computers.

[EC121]

Any primer can accumulate powder dust on the spout.  The brass one just contains the pressure to a higher level before venting.  Periodic cleaning will help and will also help prevent dribbling.  I normally solder a nail to the spout to keep it out of the crud in the pan.  I have also read where people cut a hole in the side of the primer and soldered a thin piece of metal over it for a pressure relief diaphragm.  A piece of brass shim stock should work for that.
   

[Nessmuck]

I’ve been wearing mine around my neck for years....guess I’ll put it in my back pocket now ...

[trentOH]

I have two of the brass plunger type primers. one larger than the other, and I am quite satisfied with them, but prefer the larger. I don't like to carry it in a pocket because I wind up with a pocket tainted with priming powder, which should instead be in the tube.
I don't know the history of these priming devices, but I'm pretty sure they aren't a "back in the day" device. Thus I don't feel bad carrying it as I'm about to describe:I bought a keyring on a retractable, spring-loaded device. Think like a custodian might use to carry a dozen keys. It won't work with a bunch of weight, as it would be heavier than the spring can withstand. On the split ring I have three items, the primer, a vent pick, and a strip of cotton cloth for wiping the pan and frizzen. This is clipped onto my left side on my belt (I shoot left handed).
On the shooting line, in a woodswalk, or while shooting Running Boar I have the tools I need to manage my lock for each shot. And it retracts out of the way after I have primed. I usually shoot in a t-shirt or in a long hunters style shirt, so that places a layer of fabric between any sparks and the primer. (As well as a too-substantial belly between the lock and the primer).

[Daryl]

Had a couple - threw them out when I heard of the accident Dennis spoke of and I use horn now - love it.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have one of the TOW brass tube primers.  After Roger Fisher described how one blew parts of a fellows hand away, I took his advise and drilled a 1/2" hole through the side of the tube, and glued on a patch of leather.  It still functions the same, but is not so likely to go off like a grenade under the wrong circumstances.  I prefer horn pan chargers with just a peg in the hole.  I hang them on a cord around my neck.

[Darkhorse]

Would it be any safer to hold a priming horn in one hand and the lock in the other? Actually I would think the hands would need to be almost touching to hold the lock and trip the sear as most people do.
Will horn against wood or steel cause a spark?
How about brass against steel? I've never tested this so I'm asking?
I've used the same pan primer for at least 30 years and I like it. I think it's perfectly safe if used with common sense.
But I've seen numerous pictures where the primer was lying right beneath the touch hole so it's obvious not every one uses common sense.

[Eric Krewson]

The only thing I don't like about the push primers is how easy they are to loose in the woods, I have lost a bunch of them. I started putting them on a tether attached to my bag and came home from a hunt last year to find only the rear part still attached to the tether, the front part had come loose and deposited itself in the woods somewhere.

[t.caster]

Jeez, I have used the push point brass primers on the end of a small priming horn for at least 30 years with the only problem being when I dropped it in the SNOW. Snow (mud, too) renders it useless for the rest of the day!
Common sense says don't hold it next to your flintlock when testing or firing it! I pride myself on my common sense

[Hungry Horse]

Over the years I have seen two of these things detonate, one around the owners neck, and one on a shooting bench next to the one the shooter was using. Luckily the one around the owners neck was silver, and soft soldered. So, he only got powder burn on his neck and chin. The valves in both cases were never found. Which would make me think they left the area at a pretty high velocity. The one on the bench was set off by an old timer with a trade gun with a large touch hole.

  Hungry Horse

[little joe]

Troy Rupp of Stonewall Creek Outfitters blew a couple fingers off in a accident where the charger was made out of a 50 cal shell casing His hand was damaged very bad. I do not know very many details but he was testing the reliability of a lock.

[Joe S.]

I must be reading this wrong.....this example and Dennis's,you are saying these folks where testing lock function with the primer right in range of spark,like right in the pan area?

[Hungry Horse]

Boy has this train gone off the tracks in a couple these responses. First of all the priming valve and it’s parts are almost never the source of any kind of spark. Secondly it’s not powder dust that usually causes the problem, it powder that attaches itself to the nozzle. This happens when you plunge the nozzle into the pan that has burnt powder in it. Burnt powder is hygroscopic, and the moisture it attracts from the air glues some of the pan powder to the spout.
 Most shooters don’t have any idea how far the fire from their touch hole travels, and if they did, that information only pertains to their gun, with a given charge. So the guy three benches away that thinks his gun performs best with 140 grains of 3F, and an 1/8” touch hole, is going to be pretty hard to predict. I believe any priming device that has to be plunged into the pan has potential for this problem. And, the more hard parts attached to it, makes it that much more dangerous.

Hungry Horse

[Dennis Glazener]

I must be reading this wrong.....this example and Dennis's,you are saying these folks where testing lock function with the primer right in range of spark,like right in the pan area?

Same accident I preferred to not mention names. Lock in on hand and primer in other.
Dennis

[davec2]

A while back, Dennis had mentioned all this about the friend who had recently blown off part of his hand with a primer when it accidently caught a spark.  I thanked Dennis for the heads up and told him I was working on a primer that had a "blow out" safety feature.  Well, here it is.  It uses a modified plunger tube on the business end, but the rear end of the reservoir tube is not closed with metal.  The end is plugged with a thin leather disk sealed and water proofed with a drop of varnish.  It only takes a few psi to blow out the leather disk, so, if this one were to catch a spark, you might get burned, but the tube will not explode and there won't be any shrapnel.  (You could do the same thing with a little cork in a plain tube.)

Perhaps a little overkill, but then I had some time, some brass, an idea....and I like to keep all my digits in place.

[hanshi]

The only thing I don't like about the push primers is how easy they are to loose in the woods, I have lost a bunch of them.

And that's a fact!  I've lost them, too.  On those occasions where I carry a shooting bag in the woods and take a brass primer with me - not that often - it, too, is on a tether  but the primer is inside the bag.  Mostly, though, I carry premeasured charges and a small, bone primer.  Both are in my coat pockets which snap closed.  I don't trust tethers but feel better about it as long as the primer is in the bottom of the bag.

[Bob Roller]

Troy Rupp of Stonewall Creek Outfitters blew a couple fingers off in a accident where the charger was made out of a 50 cal shell casing His hand was damaged very bad. I do not know very many details but he was testing the reliability of a lock.

I had one,a new one made from a 50BMG case but never used it.
If I ever find it I'll give it to anyone who wants it.

Bob Roller