Author Topic: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures  (Read 18345 times)

Offline bama

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Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« on: May 15, 2018, 02:46:32 AM »
After all of the talk in the other threads I thought I would try to find the pictures I made of this rifle while I was taking Wallace's class in Bowling Green one year. I do not remember the year he gave this class but it was probably around 2009. Wallace had this rifle totally taken apart so it was quite a pleasure and enlightening to see this nice early rifle and the overall quality of it's construction. This class and the class he did on rifle No. 42 were two of the best classes I took in the 11 years I went to Bowling Green.

Take a close look at the lock mortise and how the butt plate is installed. This will give you a better idea of rifle building in 1750. We today worry over way to much in our builds. Now I am not advocating shoddy work and I am not saying this rifle is shoddy work. What I am saying is that worrying of every piece of the lock internals would have gotten you fired in 1750.

Enjoy the pictures, Jim

















































































Jim Parker

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Offline Carl Young

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 02:49:00 AM »
Thanks for posting these pictures Jim, much appreciated!
Carl
Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses. -Juvenal

Offline wattlebuster

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 02:58:38 AM »
Yes thanks Jim. I really like these closeups.
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a cold frosty morning

Offline Stophel

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 03:59:12 AM »
Excellent pictures, thank you!

The inletting is absolutely typical for 18th century guns.  One may call it "shoddy" if they wish, but that was S.O.P. at the time.

Technically, it's stronger to cut a smooth, clean bottomed inlet for the lock, rather than have all these little raised ledges that are fitted around each part, like we all like to see today.  All those little raised ledges are stress risers, and to a great degree, I think it's actually better to remove them.  ;)

« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 04:04:07 AM by Stophel »
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Offline Don Stith

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 04:03:29 AM »
Jim
Is this the one with the wooden patch box and the concave cavity? Been a long time
Don

Offline bama

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2018, 04:18:55 AM »
Yes Don this is the rifle. Not sure why I didn't get pictures of the box, might be in another file on the computer. I will take another look to see if I can find them.
Jim Parker

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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2018, 04:20:35 AM »
The feather rifle and RCA 19 also have concave box cavities.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Bigmon

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 04:21:21 AM »
Is that Cherry wood??

Offline P.Bigham

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 04:24:12 AM »
Thanks for taking and posting such detailed photos. Enjoy seeing original work.
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 06:00:16 AM »
Spectacular photos and thank you for posting all of them.

That being said, where is the 1750 date coming from?  Just judging by the guard and side plate alone, it appears to be much more along the lines of a 1775-1785 rifle.  Not trying to nitpick too much but I am indeed a nitpicker.
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Offline bama

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 06:43:15 AM »
Eric you may very well be right on the date of this rifle. My memory may be off on the date but to the best I recall Wallace referenced this time frame in the class. I personally can't say and really don't care where it dates to, it's a nice rifle. My point was that the mindset of the gunsmith's of the Rev war period as far as quality goes is a different mindset of quality in today's builder. We tend to stress over the smallest details and go for perfection. Many of the old rifles would not stand the close scrutiny we examine many contemporary rifles of today.

I think many contemporary rifles today are very well built but lack the warmth of the old rifles. We definitely have great builders today but some of the rifles seem stiff to me because they are built to such perfection. Regardless, I hope you enjoy the photos.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 06:44:04 AM by bama »
Jim Parker

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Offline Stophel

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 08:32:28 AM »
I wasn't gonna say anything about the 1750....   ;D

This gun does have charm.  And it is not perfect, by any means.  Like I said before, when I got to see this gun, I noticed how crooked everything was.  The buttplate is crooked, the lock panels are crooked, everything is just wonky, and yet, it is still pretty dat burned cool.   ;)
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline smart dog

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 02:17:46 PM »
Hi Jim,
Thanks so much for those photos.  I attempted to achieve the same goal of showing early work with the English fowlers. I believe it is very useful for folks to see how these guns were made closeup.  I also agree with you about the perfection we seek today.  I prefer to see the signs of human hands in the making of a gun rather than a machine or someone trying to be a machine.  While I try to do clean crisp work myself, I admire these early rural American gunmakers because they often attempted decoration and styling beyond the depth of their training and skills.  The result is sometimes a charming and very appealing primitiveness.  The economy of effort shown by tradesmen working at gun making for a living also lends appeal to the work.  My favorite gun that I built during the last few years is a early Reading-style rifle on which I severely limited my time at the different tasks required to finish the gun.  When I cut moldings and carving, I quickly drew the design on the wood, cut it, finished it, and moved on without fussing for hours. In my opinion, the end result was the nicest and most authentic looking rifle I've made.

dave     
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Offline bama

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2018, 04:56:47 PM »
I know a few of the contemporary makers that have built rifles based on this rifle and did a great job. I think Jim Kibler built one that was closely based on it and I think Mitch built one that was very well done. The one I built came close but I did not do as good a job as the other two. It was definitely a challenge to build and a great learning experience and I am thankful to Wallace for giving me the opportunity. Here are a few pictures of my build of this rifle. If you notice I did install the butt plate crooked just like the original and I did make the patch box like the original. I enjoyed the build tremendously.

Enjoy, Jim




























I found the pictures of the original patch box and lid. Enjoy















« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 06:23:30 PM by Ky-Flinter »
Jim Parker

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Offline t.caster

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 05:20:49 PM »
Great pics Jim! Patchbox cavity is quite different from others I have seen.
Tom C.

Offline Mauser06

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 06:13:46 PM »
Great pics Jim!


Your build looks very good too! 


What furniture did you use if you don't mind?  I'm not sure what would come the closet to it.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 06:16:47 PM »
First of all thanks so much for these great detailed pictures. I am fascinated by the pictures of the inside of the lock. The bridle is a bit puzzling, and not like any I have seen previously. The mainspring seems to be either held in by a rivet, or the head has been sheared off if it is a screw. The stamp inside the lock is quite clear, but not a maker I am familiar with. The simple lock in letting also was a revelation, after having heard as long as I have been building guns that the old timers inleted each individual part.
 I also believe this gun more than likely was built about the time of the revolution, rather than earlier.
 I too would like to know what kind of wood the stock is made of. It’s a beautiful color and doesn’t show much figure. With all its wonkyness it’s still very graceful.

  Hungry Horse

Offline bama

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2018, 06:59:29 PM »
The stock I believe to be plain sugar maple. The furniture, butt plate and trigger guard I believe that Wallace made these for the class in Bowling Green and cast them using the originals as templates. I don't know if he made any for sale outside of the class. Reeves may have some that would work but not sure about that either.

Jim Parker

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Offline tallbear

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2018, 07:02:20 PM »
Reeves #10 Buttplate and Trigger guard will work.They are taken from the feather Gun which is a slightly later gun out of the same shop.They are slightly smaller but will work.Both Ed Rayle and Rice have the barrel profiles.

Mitch

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2018, 07:09:53 PM »
Like Peter Alexander I consider the feather rifle earlier than the Woodsrunner rifle based on architecture and buttplate curvature. Look at the toe line on the feather rifle and the woodsrunner rifle for example. I know this is a contrary view but logic says if they were both made by the same gunsmith or gunsmiths in a collaborative group, the feather rifle is earlier.

Andover, Vermont

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2018, 07:35:46 PM »
 I also hope all you builders that want to throw in all in the trash every time you make a small mistake look very closely at this gun. Notch in barrel for the front lockbolt, triggerguard pin not covered by the sideplate, buttplate not particularly straight, but it all works. So don’t be so hard on yourself.

  Hungry Horse

Offline Berksrifle

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2018, 10:28:38 PM »
 I notice the underlugs are not slotted and the hole diameter appears to be larger than 1/16 inch in diameter. Were any cracks found on the stock in these areas?

 Ken

Offline Stophel

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2018, 11:18:46 PM »
The wood in the barrel channel at the muzzle end looks brand spankin' new.  Is the fore end restored?
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline bama

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2018, 01:28:36 AM »
I agree that the holes in the under lugs are not slotted and appear to be larger than a 1/16". I have seen many originals where the under lugs have not been slotted, most of them to be closer to fact. I believe that is why so many of our beloved long rifles have the for ends that are missing or just separated between the lugs. You will not hurt anything by slotting and will probably save the for ends on rifles being built today that will be viewed generations from now.

I do not recall thinking at the time the for end was replaced but I have to agree with you when I go back and look at that picture, that wood and rivet look like yesterdays work. I would have to let some one else speak if it has or not though as it is not my place to say. I will say I am perfectly fine with good restoration. 
Jim Parker

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Offline B.Barker

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Re: Woodsrunner rifle detailed pictures
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2018, 05:42:13 AM »
Thanks for the photo's Jim. Liked that rifle the first time I seen it.