Author Topic: Lock styles (Read 4444 times)

Lindisfarne793 · « **on:** May 21, 2018, 05:29:27 AM »

Does anyone know anything about the use of blind screws being used in the lock plate for the sear screws? I have seen this referenced as being characteristic of very early Germanic locks, where only one screw is visible, however I have seen a few examples (most in Shumway's collection on Jaeger rifles) that have no visible sear screws. Is actually this typical of earlier locks or a particular region?

Ron Scott · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2018, 04:34:18 PM »

The use of blind screws is somewhat a function of creating a clear canvas on which to engrave. It is not restricted to any region. Definitely would have increased the cost, because of the added time in drilling and tapping the shallow screw holes.

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2018, 04:39:08 PM »

Adding to what Ron says, bear in mind some locks have the old long sear spring that hides the screw under the cock.

cshirsch · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2018, 08:22:25 PM »

Most of the American Made 'Germanic' locks drilled the sear screw hole all the way though. Most the other screws were blind, some you barely see where the other screw holes barely pushed through the plate. I made molds from Mel Hankla's fine Shroyer rifle lock. It is the cleanest example of an American made, 'Germanic' lock that I have handled. Here's a link to some photos of the lock: http://www.texasguntrade.com/shroyer.htm I would post the photos but this site will not allow my photos to post.

Bob Roller · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2018, 10:22:41 PM »

Not bad looking at all.I have never made a Germanic lock because the market is so well
covered and I have never liked the internal mechanisms in any of them.
The shallow drilling and threading for a blind hole must have been a real accomplishment
back in the "day". A small tap had to be costlier then than now.I have done it mounting
sight bases in years past and that was it.

Bob Roller

cshirsch · « **Reply #5 on:** May 27, 2018, 11:35:51 PM »

Quote from: Bob Roller on May 27, 2018, 10:22:41 PM

Not bad looking at all.I have never made a Germanic lock because the market is so well
covered and I have never liked the internal mechanisms in any of them.
The shallow drilling and threading for a blind hole must have been a real accomplishment
back in the "day". A small tap had to be costlier then than now.I have done it mounting
sight bases in years past and that was it.

Bob Roller

Hello Bob, I have one of your percussion locks. I have not seen this particular lock before. Would you please take a look at it and tell me what you can remember about it?

Brent English · « **Reply #6 on:** May 28, 2018, 02:37:16 AM »

Quote from: cshirsch on May 27, 2018, 08:22:25 PM

Most of the American Made 'Germanic' locks drilled the sear screw hole all the way though. Most the other screws were blind, some you barely see where the other screw holes barely pushed through the plate. I made molds from Mel Hankla's fine Shroyer rifle lock. It is the cleanest example of an American made, 'Germanic' lock that I have handled. Here's a link to some photos of the lock: http://www.texasguntrade.com/shroyer.htm I would post the photos but this site will not allow my photos to post.

I have a Shroyer buck and ball gun and it's lock is very similar to the one you have pictured. The sear spring screw is also blind. It's filed up a little different than yours, the frizzen spring finale is a bit different, for instance, but sure looks like it was from the same hand. Never noticed it until now !

cshirsch · « **Reply #7 on:** May 28, 2018, 02:00:42 PM »

Quote from: Brent English on May 28, 2018, 02:37:16 AM

Quote from: cshirsch on May 27, 2018, 08:22:25 PM
Most of the American Made 'Germanic' locks drilled the sear screw hole all the way though. Most the other screws were blind, some you barely see where the other screw holes barely pushed through the plate. I made molds from Mel Hankla's fine Shroyer rifle lock. It is the cleanest example of an American made, 'Germanic' lock that I have handled. Here's a link to some photos of the lock: http://www.texasguntrade.com/shroyer.htm I would post the photos but this site will not allow my photos to post.

I have a Shroyer buck and ball gun and it's lock is very similar to the one you have pictured. The sear spring screw is also blind. It's filed up a little different than yours, the frizzen spring finale is a bit different, for instance, but sure looks like it was from the same hand. Never noticed it until now !

How long is the plate on your lock?

Brent English · « **Reply #8 on:** May 29, 2018, 12:17:55 AM »

[/quote]

How long is the plate on your lock?
[/quote]

Using a ruler, it's not a hair over 5" If I took it out and put a caliper on it, it might be a bit under. So say somewhere between 4 15/16 - 5".

WKevinD · « **Reply #9 on:** May 29, 2018, 01:58:44 AM »

Not sure how relevant this is to this discussion but here is a picture of one of Jim Chambers beautiful Jaeger locks with blind screws and as was said previously " a blank canvas for engraving"

Kevin

cshirsch · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2018, 05:29:23 PM »

Quote from: Brent English on May 29, 2018, 12:17:55 AM

How long is the plate on your lock?
[/quote]

Using a ruler, it's not a hair over 5" If I took it out and put a caliper on it, it might be a bit under. So say somewhere between 4 15/16 - 5".
[/quote]
VERY NICE!

Gunnermike · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2018, 06:47:50 PM »

This is a jaeger by J. Christoph Kuchenreiter c.1780 that was listed on the Lewis Drake website. The only visible internal screw is holding the flash pan to the plate. It also has steel brazed to the frizzen.

smart dog · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2018, 07:27:16 PM »

Hi,
You might want to view this tutorial on mid 18th century British guns. It includes a discussion of lock styles.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=48844.0

dave

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2018, 11:43:58 PM »

Quote from: Brent English on May 28, 2018, 02:37:16 AM

Quote from: cshirsch on May 27, 2018, 08:22:25 PM
Most of the American Made 'Germanic' locks drilled the sear screw hole all the way though. Most the other screws were blind, some you barely see where the other screw holes barely pushed through the plate. I made molds from Mel Hankla's fine Shroyer rifle lock. It is the cleanest example of an American made, 'Germanic' lock that I have handled. Here's a link to some photos of the lock: http://www.texasguntrade.com/shroyer.htm I would post the photos but this site will not allow my photos to post.

I have a Shroyer buck and ball gun and it's lock is very similar to the one you have pictured. The sear spring screw is also blind. It's filed up a little different than yours, the frizzen spring finale is a bit different, for instance, but sure looks like it was from the same hand. Never noticed it until now !

Brent,

That's a pretty fine looking lock! Any chance you have a photo of it straight on? It's just a little easier for my to get a good take on it I guess... I take it that it's in original flint condition? Thanks for sharing!

Jim

cshirsch · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2018, 02:50:44 PM »

This is an original lock that is mounted on a George Shroyer rifle. I have castings of this lock fror sale if anyone is interested.

Brent English · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2018, 03:41:56 PM »

Jim, here are a few more pictures of the lock on my Shroyer. It looks all original to me. The pictures are different, just slightly different angles. Let me know if you need anything else. Regards, Brent

[/quote]

Brent,

That's a pretty fine looking lock! Any chance you have a photo of it straight on? It's just a little easier for my to get a good take on it I guess... I take it that it's in original flint condition? Thanks for sharing!

Jim
[/quote]

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2018, 05:59:55 PM »

Brent,

Thanks so much for the photos. That's a super nice lock in my view. I have the pictures saved. Sure do appreciate you sharing.

All the best,
Jim

Joe Stein · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2018, 09:02:56 PM »

That looks like a really long frizzen spring on Brent's lock.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #18 on:** July 25, 2018, 11:13:39 PM »

Quote from: Joe Stein on July 25, 2018, 09:02:56 PM

That looks like a really long frizzen spring on Brent's lock.

I think it's a little longer than most, but there some with similar length. To my eye this is one of the features that make this lock so nice. Check out RCA and see what you think as to length.

Jim

Joe Stein · « **Reply #19 on:** July 26, 2018, 05:53:29 PM »

It does look nice. Elegant is the word that comes to mind. The upper and lower arms look to be in better proportion for looks. It just struck me that most frizzen springs that I've seem don't seem to be that long relative to the whole lock. In the picture it looks to extend to the end of the lock plate, even past the bevel on the edge of the plate, but that could just be the camera angle.
Thanks for the comment about looking at more originals. I've never paid that much attention to frizzen springs before. Now I am going to go back through all my books. And look more closely at guns I see at shows.

Joe

Curtis · « **Reply #20 on:** August 24, 2018, 04:50:36 AM »

Quote from: cshirsch on July 25, 2018, 02:50:44 PM

This is an original lock that is mounted on a George Shroyer rifle. I have castings of this lock fror sale if anyone is interested.

Chris, looks like you offer casting of some very nice and unique locks on your site! It's good to know of another source for such things.

Curtis

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Author Topic: Lock styles (Read 4444 times)