Mahogany Issac Haines (Update with pictures of the original rifle)

[smylee grouch]

I can't add anything new so will say it is in deed a great gun in all respects. How do you fill in the grain on the walnut?

[smart dog]

Hi Jim,
Thank you for the photos of the original. You did an incredible job emulating that rifle, finish and all.  Well done.

dave

[bama]

Skyler grouch, this piece of walnut was a pretty fine grained for black walnut. I am glad l bought this stock several years ago. Nathan Cox had a few pieces of this wood at the Tennessee show and I believe he had $800 on them.  I also scrape my stocks to final finish which does not open the grain as much as sanding. I also hand rub on my finish really taking time to work the finish into the wood. I let each coat dry for a couple days, then before I apply the next coat I burnish the whole stock with an old terry cloth towel. I also burnish with 4/0 steel wool lightly, this helps cut the shine, you just have make sure to get all of the wool removed before applying the next coat of finish. All of the above helps fill the grain. This is not a fast finish to apply but the results are hard to argue with.

[horologist]

Jim,
Great job on your rifle and thanks for the photos of the original. That was my favorite rifle in the Landis Valley exhibit a few years ago and they didn't allow photography. I am building an Issac Haines rifle and wanted to incorporate that carving on my rifle.

Troy

[J. Talbert]

Jim,
Very nice work.  That is some really ambitious elaborate carving, I would imagine even more challenging on walnut.

Great job,
Jeff

[Iktomi]

A note about "mahogany" if you are planning on stocking a rifle from it. This original gun was almost certainly stocked in West Indian mahogany, Swietenia mahagoni, which saw heavy commercial use from the 17th through the mid-20th centuries. This particular wood is not readily available in the commercial trade these days, almost all of the "genuine" mahogany is Honduran, Swietenia macrophylla. These are also several other species from Africa and S.E. Asia marketed as mahogany as well. Whether or not they are suitable as gun stock wood I have no idea.

 Again, you did an outstanding job capturing the character of the original. Really fine work

[FALout]

I’ve often thought about mahogany for making a rifle, but my use of it in cabinet making shy’s me away from that idea.  It cuts nice, but can have a tendency of warping and twisting which could rear it ugly head in the fore stock area.  Great looking wood.

[Stophel]

I've never had it in my hands, of course, and only seen a FEW decent color pictures of it, but I wonder how it was determined that the wood was mahogany.

[smart dog]

Hi.
Chris, mahogany is easy to identify versus walnut or any other likely gun stock wood.  Yes, Iktomi, "West Indies"  or better known as "Cuban" mahogany was logged almost to extinction. It has a rich grain and color that was so popular that it was called the "King's Wood".

dave

[Pennsylvania Dutchman]

Absolutely beautiful rifle!
Mark

[Marcruger]

Hi Jim,

You might get some amusement out of this. 

I got to this post, looking at it on my phone waiting for my wife in a store. 

I paged past the text and on down to the photos......

I thought, "Holy cow!  Who did THAT carving, engraving and inlay work?"  I quickly scrolled back to the top and saw "BAMA".  I whacked my forehead and said, "Duh, it's Jim's gorgeous work. I should have known." 

My wife's comment on returning was "WOW.  Look at that."

I know the new owner is a happy camper. 

Love the Golgotha work at the buttplate return. 

Best wishes, and God Bless,  Marc

[Marcruger]

In regards to mahogany, I'll post my experience with the wood. 

I defer of course to the master wood expert Bob Hill who has seen and worked more wood in his time than few can even imagine. 

I used to run a guitar shop and did repairs.  The Gibson electric guitars were made out of mahogany, at least partly.  The wood was much lighter than maple, and gave a deep, rich tone.  That said, it seemed to be very weak compared to maple (another favored guitar wood).  The screw holes in mahogany would strip out to dust in a heartbeat.  We were often pegging and re-drilling these screw holes.  Also, it was common to find Gibsons with the headstocks snapped off of the mahogany necks.  You rarely ever saw this with maple necks. 

I look at my maple forend on my longrifle, and think how nervous I get if the barrel is out of the stock for any reason.  I cannot imagine mahogany that thin and surviving.   Maybe a halfstock that is not too slender. 

I may be referring to a different breed of mahogany.  I don't know the variants well enough to tell.

Just a word of caution based on my experience. 

God Bless,   Marc

[bama]

Hi Marc
Thanks to you and all that have complimented my work. I find it interesting that you commented about the strength of the mahogany you used in the guitar store. I am not sure but I seem to recall that the forearm on the original was replaced about the middle pipe forward. Although many long rifles suffered this fate, that may be why we don't see more rifles made from mahogany.

[J I]

Mr. Parker,
That is a great looking rifle. I really like the engraving.

Jeremiah

[bama]

Thanks Jeremiah

I hope you are doing well.

[Jeff Stewart]

Really like the engraving on the lock.  Nice job.

[gumboman]

This piece is truly a work of art Jim. And it will be an awesome hunting weapon too.

[KC]

Jim, that's a great looking rifle for sure. It covers a lot of ground with the carving, the inlays, the wire inlay, and the engraving. I'd sure like to take another one of your classes sometime. Every time I look at one of your rifles I see a lot of things I'd like to learn how to do.
K.C.

[bama]

KC you're welcome back anytime you want to come, I would love to have you back in the shop.

[smart dog]

Hi Folks,
It is very hard to compare the mahogany likely used in Haines' rifle and the mahogany we have available today.  In Haines' day, the wood was almost certainly-old growth, not plantation grown, and most likely Swietenia mahoganii commonly called Cuban mahogany.  Cuban mahogany was almost logged to extinction and today we usually buy Honduras mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla.  The combination of old-growth and the species mahoganii could easily produce a heavy, dense, and strong stock that worked more like red maple than modern mahogany. Here are some data showing specific gravity of dried wood and Janka hardness:  Honduras mahogany -  0.59, 900lbs, Cuban mahogany - 0.60, 930lbs, red maple - 0.61, 950lbs, sugar maple - 0.71, 1450lbs, black walnut - 0.61, 1010lbs, English walnut -  0.64, 1220lbs, black cherry - 0.56, 950lbs. Also, if the lumber was from old growth, all of those values would increase significantly.

dave

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

 How do you fill in the grain on the walnut?  quote from Smylee Grouch

I sand the wood with 220 grit paper and finishing oil until a thick slurry of mud forms, then move on to a new area, leaving the mud to cure for several days.  Then I sand off all the mud down to the wood again.  Working around carving is tedious and a lot of care much be taken to preserve the sharpness of the carving.  this fills the grain like nothing else.  A second sanding is sometimes required on really open wood.  Then finishing coats are applied as the wood is usually well sealed by this time.  There is no comparison between a walnut stock that has been filled, and one that has not.

[smylee grouch]

Thanks for that method Taylor, I am currently finishing a walnut stock and will try that out. 

[Buck]

Jim,

Wow!

Buck

[Realwarrior]

Simply amazing Mr. Parker!

[jerrywh]

 Technically mahogany is a hard wood by definition but it is not very hard and therefor does not make a good gun stock. Sorry for the truth. That's how it is.