Just don’t like the way it looks.....fore end related!

[Terry Reynolds]

Starting into the stock shaping part on my .40 cal. youth rifle I’ve been working on for a couple months now and I’m hung up on the shaping of the fore end. I thought I would ask for idea before I buggered it up be on recovery. As you can see in pics it looks blocky and blunt And doesn’t flow into the nose cap. I’ve looked up a lot of pics but the photographer’s don’t spend a lot of time around that end of the gun.
I’m looking for suggestions on a smooth blend/shape going into the nose cap....what would you do?

Thank you

[Chowmi]

There are several problems all happening at once.
The step down from the side of the ramrod channel should happen maybe 1/2 inch or more prior to the rear of the muzzle cap.
Your forward entry pipe is too far forward, that is, too close to the muzzle.
Also, looks like your web between the barrel channel and the ramrod groove is too thick. All of those things are making everything look really fat and awkward.
The second two of those things may be hard to change now that you are this far along. The first, you can change.
Go look in the ALR archives, there certainly are pictures in there of the muzzle cap on good longrifles. You should see what you need there.
Again, that transition you have from the ramrod channel to the muzzle cap does not occur at the rear end of the muzzle cap. It occurs before that.

Study study any pictures you can get.

Cheers,
Norm.

[J. Talbert]

You need to remove wood down to the profile of the nose cap, and blend it in to the profile of the stock.  In your case you've left yourself little room to make the transition with the positioning of the front barrel pin and the first ramrod pipe.
A little more distance there would make a smooth transition a lot easier.

Where the profile of the curve now is basically a hump, it needs to be turned  into a gentle slope that transitions at the bottom of the slope to match the nose cap.

Hope that makes sense.

I'll  see if I can get a picture to add.

Jeff

[Dennis Glazener]

This is the first photo I found of an original. It is not as pronounced as many will be but it should give you an idea of how its done. Start further back toward the breech and have the front part flush with the nose cap.
Dennis

[sespe]

This is what I did when I cut down a traditions kit for my son.  Poured pewter instead of brass.

[Terry Reynolds]

I appreciate the comments.

Chowmi, once I set the barrel pin I figured I had a problem. Think I’ll do do more research and sleep on it.

[mountainman70]

Hi Digger,and welcome. On your next build,try using 1/16 pins for your pipes and barrel underlugs. It took me a couple  early attempts at this hobby to figure out that tis best to use as least a screw , pin bolt as is realistic, thought being is it looks better, and you can always go next size up if need be, or the dang thread tap breaks off in some hole. ,Ask me how many?   
This is one area of the build that used to give me the willys,til I started moving rr pipe back more,and got an idea as to lining up the sides to bring down with the files,etc.
You can save this challenge, and by doing so ,add a new lesson to your book.
 Have a goodun, just back off ever now and then and get a cold one or two------  Dave

[EC121]

Take the barrel pin out and shape wood then cut the pin off to fit.  Start the fade to the cap about halfway between the pipe and the end of the cap.  Once you get it shaped it won't look all that bad.  Call the experience tuition in the school of rifle building.  Besides, 99.9% of all the people who look at it won't know the difference.  Tell them you wanted it that way.

[smylee grouch]

It almost looks like you could still move your rr pipe and barrel lug back. It looks like you have wood to work with and moving the barrel lug would not be that hard to do .

[Chowmi]

Digger,

Do you happen to know how thick the web is between your barrel channel and your ram rod channel?  I mentioned before that it looks too thick, and I was curious if I was right, or if it was an illusion. 
If you look at the pictures Dennis and Jeff Talbert posted, the ramrod pretty much rests on the bottom of the nose cap.  That is how it should be.  Yours is way below it.  That compounds the problem that you are seeing. 

If you know the web thickness, I'd be interested to hear it, just to check if I'm seeing it right. 

Norm

[flehto]

To start, a web thickness at the muzzle of 5/32" yields a nice slim look. I usually set the drop off a fair distance from the end of the Mcap.....gives a lot of "finger room" fro grabbing the RR and is easier to shape the area immediately  behind the Mcap. A forestock molding as shown also slims down the forestock. .....Fred

[Percy]

Very interested in this subject since I am working on my first build and I'm almost ready to start on the nose cone and ramrod pipes.

Fred, reference the picture you posted. Can you tell me what the distance is between the end of the barrel and the start of the entry pipe?

Percy

[smart dog]

Hi,
Here is another example of the muzzle area.

It helps to have a thin web of wood between the barrel and ramrod channel so the ramrod tucks up under the muzzle and little daylight shows between them.

dave

[Terry Reynolds]

Norm, web thickness is 1/4”.

[flehto]

Percy.....approx. 4-1/4" -4-3/8". The one shown here is 4-1/2".

[Daryl]

Many thanks to the builders who took pictures of their forend treatment and muzzles.

[jerrywh]

 There is a general rule about forward RR thimbles. The forward RR thimble should be at least 4 fingers  behind the muzzle.  This allows the shooter to grasp the RR with his thumb and four fingers when removing the Ram Rod.
    Little is said about this but the study of original good quality guns will show this to be true. That is one of your problems. The front of the forward RR thimble should be at least 4" behind the muzzle.  However you can partially correct the problem without moving the thimble if you choose to do it by forming a step down as some have suggested already.

[Mike Lyons]

I'm new but I would suggest plugging the holes, studying the pictures given and moving everything back a bit. If you don't like it now,  you still have the opportunity to make it pleasing to your eye.  Once you finish the rifle,  you can't see the plugs anyhow. 

[Terry Reynolds]

First, thank you for all the nose cap pics helps a lot. The first thing I wanted to do was get rid of that annoying gap between the cap and ramrod but with a 1/4 “ web I knew I had a challenge.

So, I thought why not fill in the gap. I took a piece of flat brass, shaped it to the outside curve of the cap and solder it on. Still in process of shaping it but this is what it looks like now. Now at less I feel like I can take that outside radius of the fore end to a inside radius down to the level of the ramrod channel.

Comments appreciated!

[Iktomi]

Thanks for posting this digger. Seeing problems that can arise and solutions to overcome them is really helpful and informative to an aspiring builder like me.

[Old Ford2]

Good morning all!
The above is what I really enjoy about this site.
Constructive critique, offering remedies, and information source.
There are true masters here, and from their guidance our Traditions muzzle loading kit, might, kinda, maybe will look like an original........nah...never.
If you don't start with good bones, it will never turn out right.
Thanks for the great tips.
Fred

[Terry Reynolds]

Good morning Fred and all,

Did a little shaping before breakfast and starting to like what I see. No why close to the fine picture that were posted by the best but I’m learning.

I’ve learned that Newton’s third law “for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction” applies to building long rifles also, I’ll have to contend with those solder lines now which I thought would be hidden a little more. But, I think it’s a wee better then 24 hours ago! 👍

[rich pierce]

Better.

[Mikecooper]

It's not too late to move that thimble down.   

[Kevin Houlihan]

You can also lower the sides of the ramrod channel some so that it covers only a third or less of the ramrod.  Also, I would start the shaping right in front the the RR pipe. Looking better already. 
Good luck
Kevin