Rifle Kits

[Bryce]

Hello all, i am new to this forum (joined today after being directed from another forum) and also to the general Black powder area. However i have been considering building a rifle kit (I can get help with much of it if need be) and i just am trying to find somewhere to get one. I'm  from Canada, and because of the exchange rate right now, it is not all that effective for me to buy from the states. What I am looking for is something preferably predating the war of 1812 as i am part of a reenactment group (Kentucky militia so i could be equipped with an earlier style of hunting rifle without much questioning). Preferably I would like to get a rifle in the range of .54-.62 caliber but outside of that, i don't know. Any help or advice on this matter is much appreciated.

Bryce

[smallpatch]

Bryce,

One of the finest early southern gun kits out there is Chamber's Early Virginia.  It's available from .54 to .62 cal.  Should be authentic for that period???  Very fine rifle.

I've built one and it's my favorite shooter.  (.60 cal)

[J Shingler]

There are lots of Kits out there but I second, Chambers are the best I have used. I have built almost every one of them and they are all excellent.

Jeff

[billd]

Somebody from Canada hepl this guy out. We agree Jim makes the best kits but he's saying it is cost prohibitive to bring one into Canada.

[Karl Kunkel]

What about Clark?

http://www.clarkindustries.on.ca/index.html

Aren't they from Ontario?  I don't know any first hand, but the kits look good on the web site.

[40Haines]

What about Clark?

http://www.clarkindustries.on.ca/index.html

Aren't they from Ontario?  I don't know any first hand, but the kits look good on the web site.

I have seen some of his stuff.

Top notch.

IMHO

[T*O*F]

I don't know what the exchange rate is, but I think he could buy a kit cheaper from Jack Garner, Tip Curtis, or Pecatonica and still come out ahead over paying Clark's prices.

[J Shingler]

"Somebody from Canada hepl this guy out. We agree Jim makes the best kits but he's saying it is cost prohibitive to bring one into Canada."

I guess I only gave a partial answer. I gave advice on what I believe to be correct on the quality. I have no knowledge about Canada and current exchange rates. I figured some knowledge or answer was better than no answer as at the time he did not have but one response to the mans question.

[Michael]

 Bryce
Try Brad Emig at Cabin Creek he make a very good kit. I believe his web site is: cabincreek.net

Michael

[Leprechaun]

How high's the dollar mama?
.89 cents and riseing.
How highs the dollar papa?
She said it's 89 cents and riseing.

That's not that bad of an exchange but, be patient, it's going in the right direction. Perhaps I think it's good because I bought stuff when the dollar was, I think under 70 cents .

[Bryce]

Its not so much that its cost prohibitive to bring it to Canada, I was just hoping there were somewhere here that I hadn't heard of. As it is, the Canadian dollar is 11 cents lower than that of the US, so its not as big a gap as it has been (not as small either  ) and so long as its made in the states i wont have to pay duty on it (taxes, maybe depending on how customs feels when they inspect the shipment) .Ultimately I may have to order one from elsewhere so thank you for the advice in that respect.

Clark does indeed have a couple nice kits, however as TOF said, it might be cheaper to get them elsewhere anyways (for some reason all prices on their site seem to be in USD).

Thanks again,

Bryce

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I built one of John Ēlark's longrifle kits about thirty years ago, and made up a Reedy rifle that was quite respectable if I do say so.  It shot very well, was of very hard maple and was purchased eventually by Hugh Toenjes.  Hugh worked his magic on the rifle so the next time I saw it it looked even nicer.   I'd be curious, Hugh, as to where it is now.  I like to try to keep track of my kids.
But I would have no difficulty with the concept of ordering a kit from the USA.  The exchange rate is excellent right now, shipping will cost around $50 - have it sent USPS NOT UPS!!!  You pay PST and GST but no customs charges.  The Post Office will also charge you $10 as a handling fee, and it'll come straight to your door, if that's where your mail comes, carried gently by a very pretty blonde girl who is very pleasant.  I order stuff from the States, just so she'll come for a visit.
Order from who ever you wish, but you can order from the States with confidence.

[brokenflint]

Be aware also of the hidden fees of a credit card transaction, I just ordered some chisels out of Canada (sent to US opposite of your situation) and had to pay a processing fee and and exchange rate fee, which would have made the items cheaper to purchase locally, well less the sales tax.   I think the fee rate was in the neighborhood of 12% by the time I was finished.

Broke

[rich pierce]

No doubt the Chambers kits are excellent and among the most precisely inletted, etc.  But it's a big investment for a first effort, and if you have yet to develop inletting, shaping, and finishing skills, you may want to build something simpler and less expensive for your first effort.  I generally recommend the first build be a Lyman GPR or a relatively cheap trade gun or a musket.  You'll learn a lot and enjoy shooting a gun you put together yourself.

On the other hand if you have the money and can accept that your first effort will have some flaws, but you'll still have a top-quality shooter with great components and overall lines and balance, etc, then go for the high end kit, whether it be a Chambers kit or one of the other excellent offerings available.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Whenever money is exchanged - either way - financial institutions make money.  There is a charge for everything.  If you can, buy locally.  I try hard to support local business.  We here in the Great White North have Lee Valley Tools, so top quality chisels and other tools are easily available at good prices.  I have been importing muzzle-loading components since the early 70's, from a host of suppliers, and have seen our dollar at 55 cents against the green-back.  At one time, Canada customs tacked on duties that approached 33%; happily all that is behind us with NAFTA.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you have your heart set on something, swallow hard and take the leap.  And remember, "the quality remains long after the price is forgotten" - so spend wisely.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Bryce,

One of the finest early southern gun kits out there is Chamber's Early Virginia.  It's available from .54 to .62 cal.  Should be authentic for that period???  Very fine rifle.

I've built one and it's my favorite shooter.  (.60 cal)

Hey Small Patch,
So you like the Early Virginia and that big of a bore.  I am wanting to do a kit and I love the look and feel of the gun, and the time period and region it represents.  But I am just having trouble with the idea of a rifle with that big of a chunk of lead.  I don't know why, I shoot smoothbores a lot with .62 and do very well.  It is good to hear it is a good shooter.  I am considering goin up to a .62 just so I can use the same balls as my smoothbore. 

Take Care

Coryjoe (I hope I did not sidetrack the conversation)

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I had Barbie send me a .50 cal barrel with my Chambers/Mark Silver Virginia rifle kit.  Yes, it's heavier than a .58 or a .62 cal., but I like it very much and shoot it well.  It weighs 10 pounds even- unloaded, but with one of Rich's great flints.  I call her - "Voluptuous Virginia" .  "V V" for short.

[Daryl]

Bryce- take heed of Taylor's warning about shipping methods. It must come to you by post - not by brown truck UPS.  If UPS in the States sends it, UPS in Canada gets it's mitts on the invoice and acts as a Broker - you will then be charged anything up to another 33% of the cost of the merchandise.  A broker is not needed for a private citizen's purchases from the States.  Retail and wholesale shops use Brokers due to the wide variety of merchandise they buy and the quantities purchased.  You don't need a borker for any 'item' purchased.
 Paying GST and perhaps PST at the post office is much better than paying UPS Canada $300.00 for doing nothing.

BTW- GST and PST are both charged on the insured value is one is noted on the declaration.  I once bought a barrel from a fellow for $125.00 US, who insured the barrel for $400.00.  I got to pay 14% taxes on $400.00, doubling the cost of the barrel.  Fair warning.

Personally speaking, for a first 'kit' I'd put together a Lyman Great Plains Rifle as Rich noted but alter it's profiles in a manner similar to the 'customization Taylor did to Brian's rifle - WHICH BRIAN HASN'T EVEN SHOT YET!!!!!!!!!!!!  Maybe he'll sell it to you??

[Bill of the 45th]

Daryl's advice, about shipping will definitely save you some bucks, have any kit you get shipped by USPS, and save that way.  Tip Curtis is a good choice, but he doesn't have a web site.   He's not much of a computer guy, but has a mini catalog.  He also has many guns in the white, and can be very helpful.  His number is 615-654-4445.  His kits start around $650.  Also look at, and call WWW.stonewallcreekoutfitters.com.  Troy has great stuff.  Then there's www.Pecatonica.com, WWW.trackofthewolf.com, muzzleloadersbuilderssupply.com.  The last two have great catalogs, that are great resources, and helpful in building.  If this is your first build, these kits do not have instructions, and are just a collection of parts, so you should also get at least two books on building, as well as using this site for direction.  My primary build advise would be to stay away from power tools, except maybe a drill press, they will cause you to use bad words, and slow down, an already slow progress.  Have fun with it, and welcome to the best site for this type of addiction.

Bill

[smallpatch]

Coryjoe,

If you don't punch paper with hunting loads, this thing is a pleasure to shoot all day long.  I don't know the actual weight, but it is sufficient, and with the straight comb, you hardly notice recoil at all.

It also works out really nice with the ball size for my smoothies.  I shoot a .595 ball and .020 patch.  The same combination works really well in my 20ga smoothbores, with out using a hammer to seat the ball.

[bob in the woods]

With a decent book to help you, you should be able to put together a "kit" from the sources already noted. Also take a look at the different offerings by Jack Garner. He has some really nice,plain kits which are pretty inexpensive.

[T*O*F]

With a decent book to help you, you should be able to put together a "kit" from the sources already noted. Also take a look at the different offerings by Jack Garner. He has some really nice,plain kits which are pretty inexpensive.

One might also say that one of the trade gun offerings would be a good first build.  They are inexpensive, fairly easy to assemble, and fit into the time frame for the gun sought.

[Acer Saccharum]

Brian's rifle - WHICH BRIAN HASN'T EVEN SHOT YET!!!!!!!!!!!!  Maybe he'll sell it to you??

Hey, Bryce, this will save you a lot of work, a plus: nothing has to cross the border.

Acer

[T*O*F]

Brian's rifle - WHICH BRIAN HASN'T EVEN SHOT YET!!!!!!!!!!!!  Maybe he'll sell it to you??

Hey, Bryce, this will save you a lot of work, a plus: nothing has to cross the border.

Acer

I hardly think a LGP would fit into his time frame of the War of 1812, no matter how heavily it was modified.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

TOF makes an astute point.  And Brian is on a road trip right now, though he may be perusing the site from time to time.  i doubt he'd be interested in selling the rifle.  I engraved some personal stuff on it for him.