Author Topic: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?  (Read 2594 times)

Offline Scota4570

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Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« on: June 10, 2018, 09:57:16 PM »
I am working on a Kibler Colonial.  I am a stuck on a simple carving to put around the tang.  Unfortunately 95% of my documentation does not show this area.   Any pictures of something that would be appropriate and not to difficult to carve?

Here is my progress so far:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mwg1jf35g5kycdb/DSCN0296.JPG?dl=0

Thanks,
Scot 

« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 02:19:48 AM by rich pierce »

Offline smart dog

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2018, 12:41:23 AM »
Hi Scot,
Here are some ideas.  None are exact copies of originals but all are historically correct motifs and inspired by originals.

dave







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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 01:15:26 AM »
Scot, your carving so far is 100% Christians Spring/Lancaster. And it looks pretty good!  I’d find English carving around the tang a little out of place.  Of Dave’s designs, the fifth one down looks most fitting to me.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2018, 01:48:18 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement.  It is my second carving job.  I'm avoiding too much detail.  I don't want  a lot of wonkie  looking carving.  I want it all to be good even if there is less of it. 

I am having trouble keeping it crisp and flowing evenly. 

Any tips on how to clean up the scrolls to make the curves even.  I am laying out with drafting templates and stabbing in with gouges of various radiuses.  The gouges are finger nail shaped so I can walk them along on the mark following the previous cut.   

I'll go out the shop and see if I can use the fifth on down for inspiration.   It looks doable.

Thanks

Scot

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2018, 01:59:28 AM »
Scot,

I agree with Rich.  The English motifs are cool looking but the carving you showed is classic Lancaster.
















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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2018, 02:24:50 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement. 

I am having trouble keeping it crisp and flowing evenly. 

Any tips on how to clean up the scrolls to make the curves even.

Thanks

Scot

Just look for flat areas and with a fine pencil trace how you think it should go.  Use your tool of choice to fit the curve.  It’s really fine for your first carving.  The scroll in front of the cheekpiece seems to have a little flat area that could be easily fixed.
Andover, Vermont

Offline bama

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2018, 03:07:18 AM »
Here is a rifle I did in 2015 that has carving similar to the carving that you are doing.


















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Offline Stophel

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2018, 05:29:46 AM »
Everybody is posting some really nice carving... but most of it is definitely not in the "not difficult to carve" category.   :D

Consider the simple, basic fleur-de-lis that goes with the Christians' Spring/Lancaster style of carving you already have on the gun.


It's a relatively simple design, not too much three dimensional sculpting, fairly quick to do with a V Parting tool, and can be embellished if you so desire.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline blienemann

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2018, 11:24:36 PM »
C's Spring and Lancaster feel - Bob










Offline Chowmi

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 08:05:31 AM »
What Stophel and Bob Lieneman said will fit your gun nicely, and is in keeping with your "not too fancy/difficult" theme. 

Norm
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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 08:59:11 AM »
Everybody is posting some really nice carving... but most of it is definitely not in the "not difficult to carve" category.   :D

Consider the simple, basic fleur-de-lis that goes with the Christians' Spring/Lancaster style of carving you already have on the gun.


It's a relatively simple design, not too much three dimensional sculpting, fairly quick to do with a V Parting tool, and can be embellished if you so desire.

Is this even relief carved at all?  I think it looks perfect for my skill level.

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 04:18:34 PM »
Tom, that is a fine example of "incised carving", and can be done with the veiner.  You can embellish it as you like.

You have done a fine job on your relief carving, and can easily embellish/enhance the fleur de lis.  Practice on a piece of pine or something to get the feel of it, but I think you are already capable of doing a nice job on the tang area.

Craig
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Offline Stophel

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 02:31:31 AM »
Everybody is posting some really nice carving... but most of it is definitely not in the "not difficult to carve" category.   :D

Consider the simple, basic fleur-de-lis that goes with the Christians' Spring/Lancaster style of carving you already have on the gun.


It's a relatively simple design, not too much three dimensional sculpting, fairly quick to do with a V Parting tool, and can be embellished if you so desire.

Is this even relief carved at all?  I think it looks perfect for my skill level.

Yes, it is relieved.  This is how I see a LOT of 18th century gun carving, particularly of the types of guns that I like to do.  The carving is relieved with incised edges.  The carving does not have to be so  high, and the incised edge gives the appearance of greater depth (and, of course, more definition).  It's also how the carving can flow seamlessly from relief to pure incise, like scrolled lines flowing off of raised features.








It is done with a fine angle V Parting tool, NOT a Veiner. (a Veiner is a small U gouge).  Incise the design perhaps a bit deeper than one would if just doing incise carving, and then level down the background up to the incise line, leaving some of that line there (deepen, if necessary).   If you have the hand and eye for it, it can be done VERY quickly.  FAR faster than stab, stab, stab, stab, hunt for a gouge, stab, stab, look for a different gouge, stab, stab, stab....  It's basically wood engraving.  I only stab in with a gouge on certain things like the little "((" marks or for some odd, small, or hard to do shapes.  As with incise carving, there is no room for error, though, and you better not slip!  :D

 I have gotten to where I pretty much do everything this way now, even if I don't want an incised edge on the relief part.



I am not the greatest wood carver.  I'm fair.  Hampered mostly by my impatience, which is what keeps me from being great!  :D
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 07:13:54 AM by Stophel »
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2018, 07:36:00 AM »
I went with this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3f7lskto4x2xjqx/DSCN0304.JPG?dl=0
More clean up is necessary

Offline BOB HILL

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2018, 07:39:11 AM »
Looks nice.
Bob
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Offline flehto

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Re: Carving around tang, early, possibly english?
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2018, 03:07:06 PM »
W/ some shaping, it'll look good.... the outline looks similar to a French fleur de lis design.......Fred
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 03:09:24 PM by flehto »