Author Topic: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime  (Read 5744 times)

Offline Larry Pletcher

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Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« on: May 22, 2009, 02:45:36 AM »
Thursday at Friendship we tried a number of locks and priming powders.  Just for fun we brought some Goex cannon grade and used it as priming powder.  For comparison we also had Swiss Null B.  You're wondering at our sanity right?

In the first video you see the Everly ball bearing Siler with Swiss Null B.  The result is a snappy, quick combination.  The pan ignites as the frizzen returns.  Reminded me of the original Manton from 2007:



In this second video we used the same Everly Siler but primed with cannon grade powder.  The stuff looked like coal.  Some grannules had to be arranged so the frizzen would close.



The video is monochrome at 5000 framse/second.  We had a good time practicing and thought you might like these.

Regards,
Pletch
Regards,
Pletch
blackpowdermag@gmail.com

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roundball

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2009, 03:40:24 AM »
Was beginning to think the cannon grade wasn't going to light off at all  ;D

Daryl

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 04:14:23 PM »
Cool! - interesting to see that the prime of of cannon must have been bouncing all over the place as some pieces appeared to be ignited well away from the pan.

Offline Dan

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2009, 04:47:54 PM »
Watching the cannon prime...wondering if you still have your eyelashes? ;D  Amazing footage, thanks!

Offline hanshi

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2009, 05:01:55 PM »
Excellent video!  The speed of the firing with Swill Null B was spectacular.   What was the modification to the small Siler, if I may ask?  Curious as to how it compares to current Manton locks. 
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Offline Larry Pletcher

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2009, 06:44:13 PM »
Cool! - interesting to see that the prime of of cannon must have been bouncing all over the place as some pieces appeared to be ignited well away from the pan.
Daryl,
You can definitely see them bounce around.  I've seen that in a couple ffg videos too, but not to this extent.   BTW, the cannon powder was placed in a day horn to take to Friendship.  Some of the larger chunks stuck in the 1/4" neck of the horn when I tried to pour them in.  They fit by shaking them a little.  When priming the pan I had to roll a couple of chunks to get the frizzen shut.

Flintr,
I agree with you about the Null B ignition speed.  The only way to judge speed was the ignition starting with the frizzen return.  Few locks that I've videoed have done that.  Most notable was the original J. Manton done in 2007.  This lock may rival that lock in speed.

My complements to Sam Everly regarding this lock.  This was his large Siler with the ball bearings.  He also did tuning steps besides the bearings.  Additionally he provided a second main spring.  The spring used here was the stronger one.  I will eventually get this lock timed with both springs and report on the differences.  Needless to say I'm quite happy with the lock and Sam's work on it.

Regards,
Pletch

Regards,
Pletch
blackpowdermag@gmail.com

He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what can never be taken away.

Kayla Mueller - I didn't come here of my own accord, and I can't leave that way.  Whoever brought me here, will have to take me home.

Daryl

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2009, 06:47:22 PM »
Incredible insite and work, Larry - thankyou very much.

Sam Everly

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 11:15:13 PM »
Larry , after looking at all the videos of the locks, the one thing i want to work on is the bounce back of the frizzen. I think there has to be a way to stop or at least slow the bounce . Another thing i saw was the flexing of the cock at the neck after the cock stops . I guess that is where the double throat cocks came in to play . That frizzen bounce just kills me !!       

Offline Larry Pletcher

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2009, 04:22:27 AM »
Larry , after looking at all the videos of the locks, the one thing i want to work on is the bounce back of the frizzen. I think there has to be a way to stop or at least slow the bounce . Another thing i saw was the flexing of the cock at the neck after the cock stops . I guess that is where the double throat cocks came in to play . That frizzen bounce just kills me !!       

Sam,
You're in good company.  The original Manton lock we filmed in 07 showed the frizzen rebounding as well.  In fact it also ignited just as the frizzen returned.  I don't think it's a big worry when the Manton's function is such a great example for us.  BTW I am very impressed with your lock.

Regards,
Pletch
Regards,
Pletch
blackpowdermag@gmail.com

He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what can never be taken away.

Kayla Mueller - I didn't come here of my own accord, and I can't leave that way.  Whoever brought me here, will have to take me home.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2009, 04:39:11 AM »
Larry , after looking at all the videos of the locks, the one thing i want to work on is the bounce back of the frizzen. I think there has to be a way to stop or at least slow the bounce . Another thing i saw was the flexing of the cock at the neck after the cock stops . I guess that is where the double throat cocks came in to play . That frizzen bounce just kills me !!       

I thought the lock I have from Manton casting did not bounce but when I soled it I find its hitting the top jaw now.
If the frizzen is stopped before it compresses the spring as it comes to full open this might be controlled but???
Stopping it this "hard" might eventually break something.

Dan
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Daryl

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2009, 07:36:40 PM »
Due to the mechanics of the lock, ie: frizzen stopping against a spring, it must rebound, especially if there is minute movement where the shoe of the frizzen hits the spring.  I don't see a problem with a rebounding frizzen - that absorbs energy and helps prevent breakage as Dan noted.

Offline volatpluvia

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2009, 07:44:38 PM »
Larry,
I loved it!  Individual kernals appeared to light on one side and shoot a long flame being directed by the shell it was burning from.  Spectacular site!  Hee Hee!
volatpluvia
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Sam Everly

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Re: Video difference between Null B and cannon for Prime
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2009, 01:07:26 AM »
Larry , i have not stopped but slowed the frizzen rebound about 80%. I will not go in to detail but it was a nice fix . It did also smooth out the lock quite a bit . For a full blown target shooter this could be a extra tune up mod.  
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 01:09:34 AM by Sam Everly »